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Hi guys, Have had this on the todo list for some while but... Can't find my Grandmother on the 1891 or 1901 censuses. Her name was Clara Jane HALL and she was born January 1882 in Richmond, Surrey, daughter of Aflred James Richard HALL and Annie (WILKINSON). I beleive she was an only child. Can't find any of them on the 1891 or 1901 censuses. In 1903 she married (in Richmond I think) my Grandfather John SMITH (!). Her father was listed as deceased when she married, haven't found his death yet though. She'd been in service up to that point, so I suspect she's hiding somewhere local in the census. Would appreciate a hand on this one if anyones REALLY bored ? Thanks Paul

Hi Paul This could be a similar situation to my Great grandmother in 1901 whenever I went looking for her by her surname there was nothing to be found the only way we worked it out is she married in 1902 and had her first child in 1903 i went by the address on the birth cert of the child and bingo she is at the same address but instead of her surname it has ditto as if it was the same as the head of the household. If you could try and find the birth of a child just after 1901 you could then check that address on 1901. Hope this makes sense and it may be of use. Pat x

Good suggestion Pat BUT I know that the family relocated out of the area almost immediately after the marriage, and first child wasn't born for over a year (in Buckinghamshire I think). I've also tried looking at the house where Clara was born, but the family had moved on... Am trying to find her fathers death as we speak, trawling 20 years of Alf Halls !

Do you have ages and birthplaces for parents,please???

Oh dear Good Luck Paul, you may be fortunate like me and stumble across them just when you least expect it. Hope you do soon. Pat x

Tricia Her parents were Alfred james Richard HALL, born May 1862 in Brentford Annie Wilkinson, born 1860/61 - don't know where. Paul

I need you to know that I am going cross-eyed!!!!

in addition to above suppose you have marriage details for Annie and Alfred?? - Ooops, just lost them

We can tell you everything except what you want to know. Where the devil are they on the census?? HALL, Alfred James R 1881 September Bethnal Green Greater London London Middlesex 1c 413 MARRINER, Robert Henry 1881 September Bethnal Green Greater London London Middlesex 1c 413 Russell, Charlotte Elizabeth 1881 September Bethnal Green Greater London London Middlesex 1c 413 WILKINSON, Annie 1881 September Bethnal Green Greater London London Middlesex 1c 413

Thank you for the information... it all matches what I already had... perhaps you can see what I mean now though... they're all hiding come census night !

What if..... Alfred died.......Annie re-married and Clara didn't like being called Clara and called herself something else and on top of that they mis-transcribed both her names. I have checked all b***** Jane's born in Richmond as well under Hall and others but what if they didn't quite put the same birthplace either. Tricia - got to be out there somewhere(your relatives,not me)

Well there is another Clara Hall, Similar age, born in Surbiton (not a million miles away) but just found her on the 1891 (having previously seen her on 1901) and wrong parents, so at least I've ruled her out. I guess it's possible her mother remarried... but She was still Clara HALL when she married.

NB, thanks so much for taking the time to look... and I do know what you mean about the eyes, after doing a load of 1841 census lookups recently !

I have known families emigrate and then return. What is unusual here is that not only are this family missing but also Alfred's parents. For instance -did you find them all in 1881 -I'm getting a bit tired so could have missed them.

I'll double check this when I get home from work... I'm not 100% sure. Thanks again Paul

Who were the witnesses on Clara's marriage cert - any clues there??

Carrie, Thanks for that. Sadly she's not "mine". I did think she may have been for a long time... Surbiton isn't a million miles from Richmond. However, I've found a Clara Hall in Surbiton in 1891, and she's living with her parents - they're not the right family. Thanks anyway ! As for witnesses at Clara's wedding... The wedding was 20/5/1903 at St James, West Hampstead... The witnesses were Alfred Thomas SMITH (her husbands brother) and Alice HUTTON. Paul

In answer to an earlier question, I can't find any of the family in the 1881 either. The following (with approximate ages) are all missing.. James HALL 46 Ann Margaret HALL (nee HUGHES) 41 Alfred James Richard HALL 18 Annie Isabella HALL 17 William Charles HALL (deceased I think, he's not there in 1871) Mary Helen HALL 11 Rosina Jane HALL 10 Maybe they DID emigrate ? Paul

Glad it wasn't just me! You also verified that none of that lot witnessed the marriage. Maybe Clara went with them but returned. Very difficult to prove. Have you found any marriages for those girls - had a look on Ancestry but nothing showing. The other stuff did show on Ancestry so???? Good luck,Tricia

Oh, b*****