Find Ancestors

Hi Everyone, Trying to locate my G / Grandfather & G / Grandmother on the 1881 Census. Have G / Grandfather, aged 14, plus Parents on the 1871 at Alfreds Place, St George the Martyr with brother Harry, aged 16. ( Harry emigrated to America in 1878. ) All were entered under the name of Wensill on 1871. ... Have details of them again on the 1891, (Wentzell) in Besson Street, Deptford plus family. ....G / Grandfather, Alfred Wentzell married 1879, (Charlotte Wannell) at St Saviours, Newington, Southwark. ..... Any help locating on 1881 much appreciated. One other point which may be of help is that in 1882 my grandfather was born, Harry also known as Henry was born in Newhaven, U.S.D, which I believe stands for Urban Sanitary District. ... any help / info much appreciated,. as I have had no luck in finding them on the 1881, and have run out of idea's of where to look to find them. Looking for ALFRED & CHARLOTTE WENTZELL. Many Thanks to one and all, J.C.

Hi Ruth, Thanks for answering, .. Yes, that's them on the 1891, Many thanks, J.C.

Aww John, Thought you've got them in 1881 ! I'll see if I can find them.. Maybe someone'll beat me to it ;o) T x

Ok the surname is completely wrong here and birth places of wife and son wrong but the names are a heck of a coincidence - just thought it was worth you seeing Alfred BUCKLE Head M Male 31 Berkenhead, Cheshire, England Clerk Com Charlotte A. BUCKLE Wife M Female 24 West Ham, Essex, England Alfred J. BUCKLE Son Male 1 West Ham, Essex, England -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- Source Information: Dwelling 1 Grafton Rd Census Place West Ham, Essex, England Family History Library Film 1341408 Public Records Office Reference RG11 Piece / Folio 1709 / 95 Page Number 7

Hi Tracey, Thank's for popping in! ... Thought I could have managed to FIND them on at least on the 1881. Many thanks for your help, I'm not on my knee's again - YET! Regards J.C

Hi Teresa, Many thanks, ... I'll keep those in mind, Regards J.C.

Hi All, Just a couple of other things that I have, on the 1881 Census there is a ALBERT WENTZELL aboard the S.S Granton, in Leigh on Sea, Essex ... .... who is Alfred's father, ... but have no record yet of ALBERT on the 1891 Census. ... BUT... He crops up on the 1901 Census as a pauper, Widowed in a workhouse in Bermondsey, under the name of Wetzell, aged 64. ... .. we have not yet found any death record of Albert, we searched death records until 1910 with no result, ... we may have missed him or did he live to a ripe old age !!! ... Just thought I'd confuse you all a bit more. !!! Happy Hunting, I really DO appreciate all the help, Many Thanks, J.C.

what occupation did this elusive man have in 1891? Drives me mad when they go missing. I haven't found my own gr gr gran dad yet (mind you he was living with Not His Wife so I don't think he wanted to be found) xx A xx

Ruth, Many, MANY, thanks for your help and especially your time for looking, I'm sure that they must be there SOMEWHERE ?? I do think that this is definately another TRANSCRIPTION error on behalf of the LDS. Many thanks again for your time. Regards J.C.

Hi Annie, Many thanks for answering, .. his occupation when he married in 1879 was as a carman, which a I believe today you could say was type of delivery man, if I'm right. ... In 1882 on his sons birth certificate he was Fireman. I believe he followed in his fathers footsteps, .. as to the 1871 / 1881 Census, of his Father ALBERT. ... Fireman aboard Steamships. .. Hope this helps, Regards J.C.

I've written Wentzell out in Old Copperplate and looked for things that might be compatible Here's a few ideas Household: Name Relation Marital Status Gender Age Birthplace Occupation Disability Thomas JENKINSON Other M Male 48 Runcorn, Cheshire, England Master (Harb) James B. SWINBURNE Other M Male 45 Liverpool, Lancashire, England Engineer (Harb) Albert B. HASKAYNE Other U Male 22 Liverpool, Lancashire, England A B Seaman (Harb) James BARNES Other U Male 24 Tranmere, Cheshire, England A B Seaman (Harb) William WIKELEY Other M Male 50 Castle Howard, York, England A B Seaman (Harb) James CLIFF Other M Male 51 Whitley, Cheshire, England Fireman (Harb) Hugh HAGAN Other M Male 22 Birkenhead, Cheshire, England Fireman (Harb) Alfred O. GASKELL Other M Male 25 Birkenhead, Cheshire, England Fireman (Harb) -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- Source Information: Vessel "British King" Census Place Higher Bebington, Cheshire, England Family History Library Film 1341855 Public Records Office Reference RG11 Piece / Folio 3571 / 165

I have to give up here too. It beats me. tried every combination I can think of - perhaps they hid in a cupboard when the enumerator came round and pretended no one was at home. Its at times like this you need that time machine. Did he by the way have a middle name he may have gone under? Teresa

Hi Teresa and John etc Drives you mad. When I said 'a few ideas' I was obviously over optimistic! I have got access to the 1881 cd and will have a look for firemen and carmen early next week if it helps xx A xx

Thank you Annie for that, ALFRED was born in April 1854, his age of 32 0n 1891 is infact incorrect and should have been 37, I think in those days they conveniently lost a few years, lost track of their age, or could it be another transcription error?. ... Working from this and what info you have supplied, the two possible's are at the bottom of the your list, and I will definately keep these on one side. Many Thanks. Regards J.C.

Hi Teresa, His middle / other name? could have been Henry??. One other thing to keep in mind is of his son's birthplace of Newhaven in 1882, which would mean a search of the Sussex Census 1881. Any further help will obviously be much appreciated, Regards J.C.

Hi Annie, I thought it was just me, not doing something quite right, in finding them on the 1881. It's at times like these when you really could start thinking if you are ever going to locate them and easily give up searching for them. Any help from you, if you can with the 1881 Census CD would be much appreciated. Something else that I should add, do not try to look for Alfred on the 1901 Census, as you will not find him, HE also emigrated to America in 1896, eventually, along with the two youngest of his children. Regards J.C.

Thanks everyone for your help, Time to retire I think, Night, Night, J.C.

John Hope you had a good night's sleep! Have you looked for Mentzell and variations - W could quite easily look like M? Helen

Hi and a GOOD MORNING EVERYONE, Here's hoping you are all well and had a good night's sleep, -- It's going to be another HOT one!. .. Enjoy it while it lasts. We don't have enough of them, .. Thank's again for all your help, a few other basic facts which may give someone a nudge in tracking Alfred / Charlotte on the 1881 - Are - 1871 Census - We have Albert / Charlotte (SADLER)with ALFRED & HARRY at Alfred's Place, St George the Martyr. 1879 Alfred marries Charlotte WANNELL 1873/4 to 1880 my own research brought Albert on the Electoral Registers at Faraday Street, Newington. I assume that Charlotte and the boys were with him. 1878 Harry, Alfred's brother, emigrates to America. 1881 Census we can only find Albert on board S.S Granton @ Leigh on Sea, ESSEX . LDS 1881 Census shows Albert as unmarried (???) A Charlotte Wentzell died @ St. Thomas Hosp. in 1882/3.( these details were found by another family member ) 1882 Alfred & Charlotte's, son another Harry(Henry), is born in Newhaven Sussex. 1891 Census shows ALFRED & wife Charlotte WANNELL and family at DEPTFORD, but with no show of Albert. 1896 Alfred emigrates to America. 1897 Alfred takes his two youngest children to America 1901 Census has Albert,(WETZELL) now a pauper listed in a workhouse. That's about as short a breakdown to what I can do, Many Thanks, Everyone, J.C.

Hi Helen, Many thanks for the info, ... I have just tried Mentzell, again unfortunately, drew a blank, Regards J.C.