Trying to find James Foyer c1849 birth record who was a Flour / Corn Miller. I know his whereabouts from 1881 onwards and his death in Paisley Scotland in 1920. On his death certificate he is called James Frederick Foyers
He married Mary Taylor in 1873 Dewsbury and moved to Ayrshire by 1891 and then to the Glasgow area by 1901 His father was Joseph Frederick Foyer, a Lawyer/Solicitor.
Census records say that James Frederick Foyer was born in Scotland (Kirkintilloch) but I can't find any trace of either him or his father before the 1881 census, except for his marriage in 1873.
Is there anyone out there that can solve the mystery?
Many thanks from Dianne
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Hi everyone,
Just trying again to see if anyone recognises the above details and can help in anyway. Many thanks.
Best wishes for the new year.
Dianne
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have you looked at the birth records on 'Scotlands people' site ?
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Thanks Minnie, but yes I have and there's nothing listed.
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ps,
wondered if he was born in England or elsewhere and the census records were wrong.
I don't know why he got married in Dewsbury Yorkshire. I think his wife, Mary Taylor c1845, was born in Lincolnshire.
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Could these be James' mother and brothers in 1881?
Name: Mary W. Foyer Age: 72 Estimated Birth Year: abt 1809 Relation: Head Where born: Fife, Scotland Civil Parish: St Pancras County/Island: London Country: England Street address: 67 Fortess Road Condition as to marriage: Windower (Widower) Registration district: Pancras Sub-registration district: Kentish Town ED, institution, or vessel: 49a
Charles Ed.S. Foyer 35 - solicitor Mary W. Foyer 72 Thomas W. Foyer 40 - surveyor, Inland Revenue Ann Mortimer O'Brien 45 (servant)
-- all three born in Scotland.
Two of them in 1871:
Name: Mary Foyer Age: 62 Estimated Birth Year: abt 1809 Relation: Mother Where born: Fife, Scotland Civil Parish: Saffron Walden Ecclesiastical parish: Saffron Walden Town: Saffron Walden County/Island: Essex Country: England Registration district: Saffron Walden Sub-registration district: Saffron Walden ED, institution, or vessel: 9 Household schedule number: 329
Anne A Brien 36 Mary Foyer 62 Thomas W Foyer 30 - civil service, surveyor
Those sons' occupations certainly fit with James's father Joseph Frederick Foyer, solicitor.
Son Charles in 1871:
Name: Charles E S Foyer Age: 25 Estimated Birth Year: abt 1846 Relation: Lodger Where born: Scotland Occupation: Solicitor Civil Parish: St James Clerkenwell Ecclesiastical parish: St Mark County/Island: London Country: England
The only Scotland-born Foyer in England in 1861 ... barring mistranscriptions at Ancestry ... is:
Name: John Foyer Age: 39 Estimated Birth Year: abt 1822 Relation: 3rd Engineer (Engineer) Where born: Shaithblane, Stirlingshire, Scotland Civil Parish: Vessels Town: Liverpool Dock County/Island: Lancashire Country: England
Not getting any farther back than that 1871 possibility for family though ...
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Dear Kathryn,
These are very interesting census records, especially with the solicitor connection. Thank you so much for taking the time to look them up.
I'm not sure where to go from here to find out if this Mary Foyer is my Joseph Foyers wife (widow) and if Charles and Thomas are older siblings to my James Foyer.
Have you any ideas?
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I've just discovered through Scotland's People that Thomas Foyer was born in 1840 and Charles Foyer in 1844 in St Cuthberts Edinburgh. Their parents were John and Mary Foyer (don't know Mary's maiden surname)
Sadly, this means that Charles & Thomas weren't my James Foyers siblings as James dad was Joseph Foyer, but I'm hopeful that they still could be related (cousins?) because of the surname Foyer and solicitor connection.
Any more info would be very much appreciated.
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You've got farther than I did. ;)
I'd be surprised if there weren't some connection, given the occupational similarities. I did look for that other family in the earlier censuses, in both Scotland and England, to no avail.
Found these Foyers and that was all -- but they're in the right place in 1851:
Name: Walter Foyer Age: 37 Estimated Birth Year: abt 1814 Relationship: Head Gender: Male Where born: Edinburgh, Midlothian Parish Number: 685/2 Civil Parish: Edinburgh St Cuthberts County: Midlothian Address: 3 Montague St Occupation: Hatter (master Employing 1 Man) ED: 47 Page: 3 (click to see others on page) Household schedule number: 14 Line: 16 Roll: CSSCT1851_183
Henry R Foyer 11 Sarah A Foyer 6 Walter Foyer 37 Walter Foyer Junr 10 Robert Johnston 37 Anne Rankine 32 Janet Wilson 18
On a search in 1851 for John, Edinburgh St Cuthberts Midlothian, wife mary, occupation solicitor, only a Henderson comes up. He may have been deceased by that point.
In 1841, searching all of Scotland for any John who was a solicitor / lawyer, there's nothing in the list that looks like a mistranscription of Foyer. Ditto for Joseph.
But searching for Thomas in that place in 1841, we do find (I hadn't quite yet got around to the Jno thing):
Name: Jno Foyer Age: 30 Estimated Birth Year: abt 1811 Gender: Male Where born: Midlothian, Scotland Civil Parish: Edinburgh St Cuthberts County: Midlothian Address: Nicolson Square Occupation: Hatter Parish Number: 685/2
Jno Foyer 30 Jno Foyer 3 Mary Foyer 30 Thomas Foyer 1
And I do think that must be the other family in question. It seems that Foyers were commonly hatters.
Five Josephs in Scotland in 1861 who were lawyers / solicitors. None of them look like yours. You know you can search all the Scottish censuses by occupation, right? Because Ancestry can't provide the images, it has transcribed all the info on them. Not well, but there you are; there's a solicitor "in Actreal Mastice" who probably thought he was in active practice, that sort of thing.
So I tried "sawyer" too, as a possible mistranscription of lawyer. No more joy.
But do feel free to take a shot at all the possible permutations and malformations of all the data, yourself!
You say:
"On his death certificate he is called James Frederick Foyers"
There's one possibly interesting person in England:
Name: Euphemia Foyers Age: 73 Estimated Birth Year: abt 1808 Relation: Pauper Where born: Scotland Civil Parish: Withington County/Island: Lancashire Country: England Street address: "Chorlton Union Workhouse" Withington Condition as to marriage: Widower Registration district: Chorlton Sub-registration district: Didsbury ED, institution, or vessel: Chorlton Union Workhouse 2
Deaths Mar 1886 Foyers Euphemia 74 Chorlton 8c 490
I wonder whether your James might just possibly have been making up tales about his father's occupation when he married.
Heck, maybe even about his name. He could have pulled it out of the same hat my gr-grfather seems to have found his (Monck) in, sometime in the early 1870s ...
Seriously. My gr-grfather and the sister we'd never heard of were quite definitely born Hill, and decided to be Monck sometime after his 1872 marriage and before her 1875 marriage. Their real father was Francis Hill, and on the sister's 1875 marriage certificate to a rich guy she says he was Francis Monck, gentleman, while on my gr-grfather's 1883 marriage certificate to a bobby's daughter he says he was Francis Monck, cook (as my gr-grfather was).
Read all about it (or at least a small part):
http://genesreunited.co.uk/boards.asp?wci=thread&tk=976217
I wouldn't discount that possibility out of hand at all.
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Here's the earliest record I find of that Euphemia (searching for Eup* Foy* born 1811 +/-5, anywhere anytime):
Name: Euphemia Foyer Age: 37 Estimated Birth Year: abt 1814 Relation: Servant Gender: Female Where born: Greenland, Berwickshire, Scotland Condition as to marriage: Widow Civil Parish: Little Bolton Ecclesiastical parish: All Saints County/Island: Lancashire Country: England Registration district: Bolton Sub-registration district: Little Bolton
Looking at her census page, a possible mistranscription occurs to me: Fryer. No luck with that either though ...
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Dear Kathryn,
Thanks again for all the info.
Below are a couple of census records for my James Frederick Foyer, his wife Mary (nee Taylor) and their children.
1881 England Census about Jas.Fk. Foyer Name: Jas.Fk. Foyer Age: 32 Estimated birth year: abt 1849 Relation: Head Spouse's name: Mary Gender: Male Where born: Scotland
Civil Parish: Dewsbury County/Island: Yorkshire Country: England
Street address: Back Ridgeway St Condition as to marriage: Married Occupation: Corn Miller
Registration district: Dewsbury Sub-registration district: Dewsbury ED, institution, or vessel: 3 Neighbors: View others on page Household Members: Name Age David F. Foyer 6 Harry Foyer 7 months Jas. Foyer 4 Jas.Fk. Foyer 32 Mary Foyer 35 Wilfred Foyer 2
1891 Scotland Census about James F Foyer Name: James F Foyer Age: 41 Estimated birth year: abt 1850 Relationship: Head Spouse's name : Mary Gender: Male Where born: Shire, Dumbarton Registration Number: 606 Registration district: Monkton and Prestwick Civil Parish: Monkton and Prestwick County: Ayrshire Address: New Dyres Cot House Occupation: Corn Miller ED: 4 Page: 9 (click to see others on page) Household schedule number: 54 Line: 17 Roll: CSSCT1891_212 Household Members: Name Age David Foyer 16 Gladys F Foyer 8 James Foyer 14 Jane A Foyer 4 James F Foyer 41 Mary Foyer 45 Wilfrid Foyer 12
So as you can see, he is not a figment of my imagination!! - in case you were wondering!! ............but where on this planet was he in 1871, 1861 and 1851?
Gladys F Foyer is my great nana (the one who died in 1906 when my nana was 4
Thanks again Kathryn
Dianne
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.........and here's the one for 1901
1901 Scotland Census about James Foyer Name: James Foyer Age: 52 Estimated birth year: abt 1849 Relationship: Head Spouse's name : Mary Gender: Male Where born: Kirkintilloch, Dumbartonshire Registration Number: 644/3 Registration district: Dennistoun Civil Parish: Glasgow Springburn County: Lanarkshire Address: 28 Queenshill St Occupation: Grain Miller ED: 109 Page: 7 (click to see others on page) Household schedule number: 40 Line: 21 Roll: CSSCT1901_278 Household Members: Name Age Gladys Foyer 18 (born England) James Foyer 52 James Foyer 23 (born England) Jane Foyer 14 (born Ayr) Mary Foyer 56 (born England) Wilfred Foyer 22 (born England) John Kirkpatrick 21 (born Glasgow - Machine Iron Borer)
John Kirkpatrick was my great grandad as he married Gladys F Foyer
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