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Amanda
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13 Dec 2007 18:56 |
My GGF Jenkin Davies remains very elusive!! I have his dob from family Bible. He married Catherine Williams from Lledrod in 1882 and they settled in Llangeitho. His father was also called Jenkin Davies . He may have had a sister called Mary/Margaret who married a John Lewis (Llanon) I believe this lady may have been known in later years as Mangee Pennant. Does any of this sound familiar??? Any replies will be received with thanks as I am going round in circles with this one!! Regards Amanda
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JaneyCanuck
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13 Dec 2007 19:19 |
Is this the parents' household in 1891?
Name: Jenkin Davies Age: 66 Estimated Birth Year: abt 1825 Relation: Head Spouse's Name: Martha Gender: Male Where born: Ystraddyfodwg, Glamorgan, Wales Civil Parish: Englefield Ecclesiastical parish: Englefield Town: Englefield County/Island: Berkshire Country: England Registration district: Bradfield Sub-registration district: Tilehurst ED, institution, or vessel: 4
Ellen W Davies 23 George W Davies 14 Jenkin Davies 66 Martha Davies 57 Martha W Davies 28 Mary W Davies 26 Rhys W Davies 11 Richard W Davies 19 William W Davies 24 Mary Golding 15 Charles Paynter 72 Mary Paynter 54
What is it you're wanting to find -- ancestors, one presumes?
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JaneyCanuck
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13 Dec 2007 19:22 |
Well that was a little hasty of me -- saw Jenkin with daughter Mary -- there are scads of those Jenkins, aren't there?!
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JaneyCanuck
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13 Dec 2007 19:40 |
Don't know my Wales geography, but not finding a Jenkin with father Jenkin in 1861, could this be him?
Name: Jenkin Davies Age: 2 Estimated Birth Year: abt 1859 Relation: Grandson Gender: Male Where born: Cilcennin, Cardiganshire, Wales Civil Parish or Township: Cilcennin County/Island: Cardiganshire Country: Wales Registration district: Aberayron Sub-registration district: Llansaintffraid ED, institution, or vessel: 1b Household schedule number: 116
David Davies 71 Jenkin Davies 2 Martha Davies 11 Mary Davies 70 Thomas Davies 5
This would be that couple in 1841:
Name: David Davies Age: 50 Estimated Birth Year: abt 1791 Gender: Male Where born: Cardiganshire, Wales Civil Parish: Cilcennin Hundred: Ilar (Lower Division) County/Island: Cardiganshire Country: Wales Registration district: Aberayron Sub-registration district: Llansaintffraid
Catharine Davies 8 David Davies 50 David Davies 15 Mary Davies 45
There's a Jenkin Davies in the vicinity of an age to be their son / your Jenkin's father:
Name: Jenkin Davies Age: 18 Estimated Birth Year: abt 1823 Gender: Male Where born: Cardiganshire, Wales Civil Parish: Cilcennin Hundred: Ilar (Lower Division) County/Island: Cardiganshire Country: Wales Registration district: Aberayron Sub-registration district: Llansaintffraid
Jenkin Davies 18 Mary Davies 17 John Williams 88
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FannyByGaslight
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13 Dec 2007 19:59 |
mangee pennant should be mamgi and translates as pennants grandmother .do you know the occupations of the family as i am not that far from the area in question and may be able to find something.vivenne
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FannyByGaslight
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13 Dec 2007 20:02 |
i do hasten to add that kathryn b is very good as she has helped me find the right direction on things .
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JaneyCanuck
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13 Dec 2007 20:04 |
How come the poster (I forget who it was) deleted that post??
I thought that Jenkin hypothesis was at least as good as mine! I left my own stupidity there in the first post just ... because. ;)
So if she was Mamgi Pennant, she was the grandmother of a Pennant -- so she would have had a Lewis daughter who married a Pennant?
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JaneyCanuck
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13 Dec 2007 20:06 |
haha! Kathryn B comes up with wild hypotheses that, very often, turn out to be sound! Sometimes, they turn out to be horse pucky.
You just get your hypothesis and follow it around and see where it goes ...
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FannyByGaslight
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13 Dec 2007 20:14 |
pnnant could be the name of a farm or the name of a village but the farm /house is favourite as us welsh always use the abodes name to ditinguish between fanilies of the same surnames for obvious reasons sorry kathryn if i have butted in but i thought it might help you to help amanda
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JaneyCanuck
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13 Dec 2007 22:07 |
Ah, I get it. (I'm going to wait and see whether Amanda has anything to say that might help, at this point.)
Google maps gives
Pennant Llanon, Dyfed UK
which is about two miles from Cilcennin.
So I may be in the right neighbourhood!
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Amanda
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13 Dec 2007 23:22 |
Hi, Many thanks for your quick replies!!! I certainly didn't expect such a fast response. I too have looked at the Cilcennin connection but haven't got any further.I have had fantastic help from the Ceredigion Archives who have tried to track down baptism records for many of the surrounding villages but no luck. (I cannot find a birth record for any Jenkin Davies for Sept qtr 1858) So details as I know them are as follows; Jenkin Davies dob 13/08/1858 ???where Marriage 10/03/1882 Bettws Leiki to Catherine Williams. (Jenkin's father is Jenkin Davies Ag Lab) Dod 25/12/1917 death cert says aged 59 but grave stone in Llangeitho says 61!!(Registered by a nephew who may have guessed??) But if 61 his dob should be 1856! My mums cousin now in her 80's can remember visiting Mamgi Pennant and her daughter was known in the family as Mary Llanon so I think it is to do with place names. Mary and her husband John Davies ran a dairy in Llanon. He was about 20 years older than her. Their children were Gladys,Mary,Olwen Annie Maggie and John. The connection I am really trying to find is between Jenkin Davies and 'Mamgi Pennant'(married name Lewis) as I believe that she was his sister.(so do my mum and her cousin) I have all my mums cousins but just can't work out how they are all connected . I would really appreciate any help you can give me as he has been a real brick wall for over two years!! Look forward to hearing from you. many thanks Amanda
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FannyByGaslight
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14 Dec 2007 00:15 |
i know this area pretty well and will ask the davies family i know in llangietho if they can give any pointers as they have been there for generations and its a pretty close knit thing here with family so who knows! langeitho is 12 miles from cilcennin 15 from llanon and about the same to aberaeron they may know if there is a pennant farm in llangeitho if not then maybe mamgi pennant did live in pennant which is next to llanon.if you would like me to of course
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JaneyCanuck
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14 Dec 2007 00:55 |
Just muddling along here ...
Can't tell what the relationship between Jenkin Davies and Mary Davies in that 1841 household was, of course ... but if they were married, and Mary were your Jenkin's mother, this could be the Jenkin I was looking at in 1861, in 1871:
Name: Jenkin Davies Age: 11 Estimated Birth Year: abt 1860 Relation: Son Mother's Name: Mary Gender: Male Where born: S Wales, Cardiganshire, Wales Civil Parish: Cilcennin County/Island: Cardiganshire Country: Wales Registration district: Aberayron Sub-registration district: Llansantffraid ED, institution, or vessel: 1 Household schedule number: 30
Jenkin Davies 11 Mary Davies 49
Hmm. Mary is unmarried, a farmer of 20 acres; the address looks like Carrhos or Carohos. It's a prosperous looking neighbourhood, from the occupations. Hmm. What if your Jenkin's father on his marriage certificate was imaginary? It's been known to happen. A few thousand times.
Okay, well one thing we know is that the 1861 Jenkin with his grparents and the 1871 Jenkin with his mother Mary are one and the same. The address in 1861 is Caerhos, it looks like, and grandfather David is farmer of 20 acres. The three children in the household are all grandchildren.
So where was mother Mary in 1861?
Visiting elsewhere, damn her eyes.
Name: Mary Davies Age: 38 Estimated Birth Year: abt 1823 Relation: Visitor Gender: Female Where born: Cilcennin, Cardiganshire, Wales Civil Parish or Township: Llanrhystyd Haminiog County/Island: Cardiganshire Country: Wales
Condition as to marriage: Unmarried Occupation: Charwoman Registration district: Aberystwyth Sub-registration district: Llanrhystyd ED, institution, or vessel: 8 Household schedule number: 15
Catharine Davies 28 - born Cilcennin Jane Davies 2 John Davies 33 John Davies 6days Margaret Davies 5 Mary Davies 1 Mary Davies 38 William Davies 3
-- all the children belong to the couple whose household it is.
So that's the story of that particular Jenkin Davies, as best I can make it out. He doesn't seem to have had a sister Mary or Margaret -- but may have had a cousin of each. (It looks like wife Catherine Davies in that household was daughter Catherine Davies in the 1841 household, no name change needed on marriage.)
We certainly seem to be in the right neighbourhood -- you have someone from Pennant, someone from Llanon, and that
Pennant Llanon, Dyfed
is two miles from Cilcennin ...
Could the young Mary Davies, daughter of Catherine Davies who was the sister of Mary Davies who was the mother of the Jenkin in question here, have really been Mary's daughter? Or the daughter Margaret?
Or might the relationships just have got confused, and Mary/Margaret been like a sister?
-- Or, could Mary have been visiting sister Catherine with a daughter, and the daughter just got misrecorded as Catherine's daughter?
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JaneyCanuck
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14 Dec 2007 01:07 |
I'd take Vivienne up on her offer!
Note the address on the censuses for those Davies I've been looking at: it's Caerhos.
And lordy, there are Mormon Davies-s from Caerhos:
http://worldconnect.rootsweb.com/cgi-bin/igm.cgi?op=AHN&db=reklaw2&id=I1757
The David Davies there who is the same age as the one I was looking at in 1841 seems to be different. He married a Martha. But his father was Jenkin. A cousin, undoubtedly.
Caerhos makes a triangle with Pennant and Cilcennin:
Caerhos Cilcennin Lampeter, Dyfed SA48, UK
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Amanda
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14 Dec 2007 10:02 |
Hi, Many thanks again!!!
Further info that might help. At the time of their marriage(10/03/1882) Jenkin was working as a farm servant at a farm called Dolau Aeron not far from Llangeitho. Catherine Williams(born Lledrod) was a servant at a farm called Goyallt. They then lived at a tied cottage called Bont Fach where their children John 82, Mary 85 Dorothy90 and Martha 92 were born. Jenkin and Catherine later moved to a house called Brynawel in Llangeitho itself. Mary, who was my GM, married David Charles Davies of Lledrod and they ran a dairy in London.Dorothy and John both died from TB. Dorothy was only 23.
I visited Llangeitho about 15 years ago but long before I got really hooked on this geneology thing!! It was my mums first trip back in over 60yrs!!
I really appreciate all of your help. To find Jenkin will be my greatest Christmas present!!
Kind regards Amanda
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FannyByGaslight
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14 Dec 2007 15:45 |
cae=field rhos=moor and it is still there .i spent my teenage years on a neighbouring farm and walked by it 5 days a week and there is also a davies family still very close to there that have been there generations.i may be able to help crack this one but will need some time to speak to the older people for any info that they could put in. as jenkin is not that much used now as a name maybe we could get lucky and i also have another place ror you to try .... the cambrian news timewatch page does welsh family history if you contact them..
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FannyByGaslight
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14 Dec 2007 15:49 |
amanda i have just realised that you have a goyallt farm and know these people well will speak to them later.vivienne.
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Amanda
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19 Dec 2007 21:55 |
Ladies, I think you may be onto something here! My mum's cousin can remember a relative coming over many years ago tracing the Welsh mormon connection as she was doing her family tree!! Searching on Ancestry I believe that one of the sisters of jenkin on the 1861 census later emigrated to Utah (Martha I think) So if that is the case and we are onto the Mormon connection from Caerhos what would be the next step I should take? If this is 'Bingo' I can't thank you enough!! Many thanks Amanda
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JaneyCanuck
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20 Dec 2007 00:21 |
Well hey, you can always contact those Mormons through that website. Just be careful about offering up your ancestors for posthumous baptism. ;)
I suspect they don't have your people on record, or they'd probably be displaying them in the tree. But they could still be useful -- and heck, they'd still be actual family, so I'd get in touch.
And then there's whatever Vivienne may come up with. I'd be happy to dig out from under the 10 feet of snow here and go interview people in Wales myself, if you should need further assistance and have a spare plane ticket lying around ...
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FannyByGaslight
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20 Dec 2007 00:35 |
all i can offer is a spare bed and a warm by the fire as its buddy freezing here too.!!
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