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Well you can say Diolch yn fawr if you like! I hope you can, because I sure can't. ;)

I can't even quite remember what all I puzzled out here, but I'm glad it seems to have worked!

And its a bit nippy on the North Kent Coast too!!!

Another positive link is that my mum remembers rellys from Aberdare. And it appears that David Davies' wife Martha (Some sites have her as Mary but with the same parents) was born in Aberdare. My Jenkin (GGF) was known to sometimes work as a pit prop man in the mines there when work on the farms was short in Llangeitho so it all is beginning to fit.

He died 90 years ago on Christmas Day so it'll be great to have a toast to him now that he has been found (as good as damn it)

Many many thanks or should I say Diolch yn fawr

Amanda

all i can offer is a spare bed and a warm by the fire as its buddy freezing here too.!!

Well hey, you can always contact those Mormons through that website. Just be careful about offering up your ancestors for posthumous baptism. ;)

I suspect they don't have your people on record, or they'd probably be displaying them in the tree. But they could still be useful -- and heck, they'd still be actual family, so I'd get in touch.

And then there's whatever Vivienne may come up with. I'd be happy to dig out from under the 10 feet of snow here and go interview people in Wales myself, if you should need further assistance and have a spare plane ticket lying around ...

Ladies,
I think you may be onto something here!
My mum's cousin can remember a relative coming over many years ago tracing the Welsh mormon connection as she was doing her family tree!!
Searching on Ancestry I believe that one of the sisters of jenkin on the 1861 census later emigrated to Utah (Martha I think)
So if that is the case and we are onto the Mormon connection from Caerhos what would be the next step I should take?
If this is 'Bingo' I can't thank you enough!!
Many thanks
Amanda

amanda i have just realised that you have a goyallt farm and know these people well will speak to them later.vivienne.

cae=field rhos=moor and it is still there .i spent my teenage years on a neighbouring farm and walked by it 5 days a week and there is also a davies family still very close to there that have been there generations.i may be able to help crack this one but will need some time to speak to the older people for any info that they could put in. as jenkin is not that much used now as a name maybe we could get lucky and i also have another place ror you to try .... the cambrian news timewatch page does welsh family history if you contact them..

Hi,
Many thanks again!!!

Further info that might help.
At the time of their marriage(10/03/1882) Jenkin was working as a farm servant at a farm called Dolau Aeron not far from Llangeitho. Catherine Williams(born Lledrod) was a servant at a farm called Goyallt. They then lived at a tied cottage called Bont Fach where their children John 82, Mary 85 Dorothy90 and Martha 92 were born. Jenkin and Catherine later moved to a house called Brynawel in Llangeitho itself. Mary, who was my GM, married David Charles Davies of Lledrod and they ran a dairy in London.Dorothy and John both died from TB. Dorothy was only 23.

I visited Llangeitho about 15 years ago but long before I got really hooked on this geneology thing!! It was my mums first trip back in over 60yrs!!

I really appreciate all of your help. To find Jenkin will be my greatest Christmas present!!

Kind regards
Amanda

I'd take Vivienne up on her offer!

Note the address on the censuses for those Davies I've been looking at: it's Caerhos.

And lordy, there are Mormon Davies-s from Caerhos:

http://worldconnect.rootsweb.com/cgi-bin/igm.cgi?op=AHN&db=reklaw2&id=I1757

The David Davies there who is the same age as the one I was looking at in 1841 seems to be different. He married a Martha. But his father was Jenkin. A cousin, undoubtedly.

Caerhos makes a triangle with Pennant and Cilcennin:

Caerhos
Cilcennin
Lampeter, Dyfed SA48, UK

Just muddling along here ...


Can't tell what the relationship between Jenkin Davies and Mary Davies in that 1841 household was, of course ... but if they were married, and Mary were your Jenkin's mother, this could be the Jenkin I was looking at in 1861, in 1871:


Name: Jenkin Davies
Age: 11
Estimated Birth Year: abt 1860
Relation: Son
Mother's Name: Mary
Gender: Male
Where born: S Wales, Cardiganshire, Wales

Civil Parish: Cilcennin
County/Island: Cardiganshire
Country: Wales

Registration district: Aberayron
Sub-registration district: Llansantffraid
ED, institution, or vessel: 1
Household schedule number: 30

Jenkin Davies 11
Mary Davies 49


Hmm. Mary is unmarried, a farmer of 20 acres; the address looks like Carrhos or Carohos. It's a prosperous looking neighbourhood, from the occupations. Hmm. What if your Jenkin's father on his marriage certificate was imaginary? It's been known to happen. A few thousand times.

Okay, well one thing we know is that the 1861 Jenkin with his grparents and the 1871 Jenkin with his mother Mary are one and the same. The address in 1861 is Caerhos, it looks like, and grandfather David is farmer of 20 acres. The three children in the household are all grandchildren.

So where was mother Mary in 1861?

Visiting elsewhere, damn her eyes.


Name: Mary Davies
Age: 38
Estimated Birth Year: abt 1823
Relation: Visitor
Gender: Female
Where born: Cilcennin, Cardiganshire, Wales

Civil Parish or Township: Llanrhystyd Haminiog
County/Island: Cardiganshire
Country: Wales

Condition as to marriage: Unmarried
Occupation: Charwoman

Registration district: Aberystwyth
Sub-registration district: Llanrhystyd
ED, institution, or vessel: 8
Household schedule number: 15

Catharine Davies 28 - born Cilcennin
Jane Davies 2
John Davies 33
John Davies 6days
Margaret Davies 5
Mary Davies 1
Mary Davies 38
William Davies 3

-- all the children belong to the couple whose household it is.


So that's the story of that particular Jenkin Davies, as best I can make it out. He doesn't seem to have had a sister Mary or Margaret -- but may have had a cousin of each. (It looks like wife Catherine Davies in that household was daughter Catherine Davies in the 1841 household, no name change needed on marriage.)


We certainly seem to be in the right neighbourhood -- you have someone from Pennant, someone from Llanon, and that

Pennant
Llanon, Dyfed

is two miles from Cilcennin ...

Could the young Mary Davies, daughter of Catherine Davies who was the sister of Mary Davies who was the mother of the Jenkin in question here, have really been Mary's daughter? Or the daughter Margaret?

Or might the relationships just have got confused, and Mary/Margaret been like a sister?

-- Or, could Mary have been visiting sister Catherine with a daughter, and the daughter just got misrecorded as Catherine's daughter?

i know this area pretty well and will ask the davies family i know in llangietho if they can give any pointers as they have been there for generations and its a pretty close knit thing here with family so who knows! langeitho is 12 miles from cilcennin 15 from llanon and about the same to aberaeron they may know if there is a pennant farm in llangeitho if not then maybe mamgi pennant did live in pennant which is next to llanon.if you would like me to of course

Hi,
Many thanks for your quick replies!!! I certainly didn't expect such a fast response.
I too have looked at the Cilcennin connection but haven't got any further.I have had fantastic help from the Ceredigion Archives who have tried to track down baptism records for many of the surrounding villages but no luck. (I cannot find a birth record for any Jenkin Davies for Sept qtr 1858) So details as I know them are as follows;
Jenkin Davies dob 13/08/1858 ???where
Marriage 10/03/1882 Bettws Leiki to Catherine Williams. (Jenkin's father is Jenkin Davies Ag Lab)
Dod 25/12/1917 death cert says aged 59 but grave stone in Llangeitho says 61!!(Registered by a nephew who may have guessed??) But if 61 his dob should be 1856!
My mums cousin now in her 80's can remember visiting Mamgi Pennant and her daughter was known in the family as Mary Llanon so I think it is to do with place names. Mary and her husband John Davies ran a dairy in Llanon. He was about 20 years older than her. Their children were Gladys,Mary,Olwen Annie Maggie and John.
The connection I am really trying to find is between Jenkin Davies and 'Mamgi Pennant'(married name Lewis) as I believe that she was his sister.(so do my mum and her cousin) I have all my mums cousins but just can't work out how they are all connected .
I would really appreciate any help you can give me as he has been a real brick wall for over two years!!
Look forward to hearing from you.
many thanks
Amanda

Ah, I get it. (I'm going to wait and see whether Amanda has anything to say that might help, at this point.)

Google maps gives

Pennant
Llanon, Dyfed
UK

which is about two miles from Cilcennin.

So I may be in the right neighbourhood!

pnnant could be the name of a farm or the name of a village but the farm /house is favourite as us welsh always use the abodes name to ditinguish between fanilies of the same surnames for obvious reasons sorry kathryn if i have butted in but i thought it might help you to help amanda

haha! Kathryn B comes up with wild hypotheses that, very often, turn out to be sound! Sometimes, they turn out to be horse pucky.

You just get your hypothesis and follow it around and see where it goes ...

How come the poster (I forget who it was) deleted that post??

I thought that Jenkin hypothesis was at least as good as mine! I left my own stupidity there in the first post just ... because. ;)


So if she was Mamgi Pennant, she was the grandmother of a Pennant -- so she would have had a Lewis daughter who married a Pennant?

i do hasten to add that kathryn b is very good as she has helped me find the right direction on things .

mangee pennant should be mamgi and translates as pennants grandmother .do you know the occupations of the family as i am not that far from the area in question and may be able to find something.vivenne

Don't know my Wales geography, but not finding a Jenkin with father Jenkin in 1861, could this be him?


Name: Jenkin Davies
Age: 2
Estimated Birth Year: abt 1859
Relation: Grandson
Gender: Male
Where born: Cilcennin, Cardiganshire, Wales

Civil Parish or Township: Cilcennin
County/Island: Cardiganshire
Country: Wales

Registration district: Aberayron
Sub-registration district: Llansaintffraid
ED, institution, or vessel: 1b
Household schedule number: 116

David Davies 71
Jenkin Davies 2
Martha Davies 11
Mary Davies 70
Thomas Davies 5


This would be that couple in 1841:


Name: David Davies
Age: 50
Estimated Birth Year: abt 1791
Gender: Male
Where born: Cardiganshire, Wales

Civil Parish: Cilcennin
Hundred: Ilar (Lower Division)
County/Island: Cardiganshire
Country: Wales

Registration district: Aberayron
Sub-registration district: Llansaintffraid

Catharine Davies 8
David Davies 50
David Davies 15
Mary Davies 45


There's a Jenkin Davies in the vicinity of an age to be their son / your Jenkin's father:


Name: Jenkin Davies
Age: 18
Estimated Birth Year: abt 1823
Gender: Male
Where born: Cardiganshire, Wales

Civil Parish: Cilcennin
Hundred: Ilar (Lower Division)
County/Island: Cardiganshire
Country: Wales

Registration district: Aberayron
Sub-registration district: Llansaintffraid

Jenkin Davies 18
Mary Davies 17
John Williams 88

Well that was a little hasty of me -- saw Jenkin with daughter Mary -- there are scads of those Jenkins, aren't there?!