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Tina
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29 Dec 2007 14:36 |
Any info of any kind please My GGranmother was illegitimate as it say's on her birth certificate which I have. Her name was Jemima Murphie born 13.06.1883, at number 4 ---tchells lane, N or M --welltown, Kirkcudbright. Her mother's name was Annie Murphie. I have Jemima marriage certificate it say's that her father's name was David Gilbertson, so Annie must have gone on to marry him, was he her real dad, when and where did they marry. Did Annie and David have any more kid's? On Jemima marriage certificate she appears as Mina Gilbertson she married William Herbert Jones on 02.06.1907 in Bootle. I won't hold my breath as I know it's a long shot. Regards Tina. X
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°o.OOº°‘¨Claire in Wales¨‘°ºOO.o°
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29 Dec 2007 14:44 |
Any help?
1891 Scotland Census about Jemima Murphie Name: Jemima Murphie Age: 7 Estimated Birth Year: abt 1884 Relationship: Grand Daur (Granddaughter) Gender: Female Where born: Maxweltown, Kirkcudbrightshire Registration Number: 817 Registration district: Cummertrees Civil Parish: Cummertrees County: Dumfriesshire Address: Powfoot Village Occupation: Scholar ED: 2 Page: 4 (click to see others on page) Household schedule number: 16 Line: 13 Roll: CSSCT1891_391 Household Members: Name Age George Gilbertson 16 Janet Gilbertson 11 John Gilbertson 55 Margaret Gilbertson 54 Margaret E Moffat 1 Jemima Murphie 7
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***Michelle***
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29 Dec 2007 14:45 |
Looks hopeful from 1891 Census with her Grandparents
1891 Scotland Census about Jemima Murphie Name: Jemima Murphie Age: 7 Estimated Birth Year: abt 1884 Relationship: Grand Daur (Granddaughter) Gender: Female Where born: Maxweltown, Kirkcudbrightshire Registration Number: 817 Registration district: Cummertrees Civil Parish: Cummertrees County: Dumfriesshire Address: Powfoot Village Occupation: Scholar ED: 2 Page: 4 (click to see others on page) Household schedule number: 16 Line: 13 Roll: CSSCT1891_391 Household Members: Name Age George Gilbertson 16 Janet Gilbertson 11 John Gilbertson 55 Margaret Gilbertson 54 Margaret E Moffat 1 Jemima Murphie 7
Michelle
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°o.OOº°‘¨Claire in Wales¨‘°ºOO.o°
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29 Dec 2007 14:47 |
They had a son David
1871 Scotland Census about David Gilbertson Name: David Gilbertson Age: 11 Estimated Birth Year: abt 1860 Relationship: Son Father's Name: John Mother's Name: Margaret Gender: Male Where born: Cummertrees, Dumfriesshire Registration Number: 817 Registration district: Cummertrees Civil Parish: Cummertrees County: Dumfriesshire Address: Hillhouse Occupation: Scholar ED: 2 Page: 7 (click to see others on page) Household schedule number: 31 Line: 4 Roll: CSSCT1871_182 Household Members: Name Age David Gilbertson 11 Elizabeth Gilbertson 1 George Gilbertson 3 Isidoros Gilbertson 14 Jane A Gilbertson 1 Mo Janet Gilbertson 9 John Gilbertson 34 Margaret Gilbertson 33 Mary Gilbertson 5 William Gilbertson 7
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***Michelle***
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29 Dec 2007 14:48 |
1891 Scotland Census about Annie Murray Gilbertson Name: Annie Murray Gilbertson Age: 31 Estimated Birth Year: abt 1860 Relationship: Wife Spouse's name : David John Gender: Female Where born: Kelton, Kirkcudbright Registration Number: 817 Registration district: Cummertrees Civil Parish: Cummertrees County: Dumfriesshire Address: Longfords Cottage Occupation: Ploughman or Ag Labr Wife ED: 3 Page: 7 (click to see others on page) Household schedule number: 21 Line: 2 Roll: CSSCT1891_391 Household Members: Name Age Robert Elliott 47 Annie Murray Gilbertson 31 David John Gilbertson 39 James Gilbertson 11 Mos Robert Gilbertson 4 William Gilbertson 2 Agnes Wright 27 Possible for Annie and David?
Michelle
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°o.OOº°‘¨Claire in Wales¨‘°ºOO.o°
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29 Dec 2007 14:50 |
but it looks like David didn't marry
1901 Scotland Census about David Gilbertson Name: David Gilbertson Age: 41 Estimated Birth Year: abt 1860 Relationship: Son Father's Name: John Mother's Name: Margaret Gender: Male Where born: Cummertrees, Dumfriesshire Registration Number: 817 Registration district: Cummertrees Civil Parish: Cummertrees County: Dumfriesshire Address: Powfoot Stuartville Quunsberry Cottage Occupation: Railway Surfaceman ED: 2 Page: 4 (click to see others on page) Household schedule number: 14 Line: 17 Roll: CSSCT1901_428 Household Members: Name Age David Gilbertson 41 George Gilbertson 26 John Gilbertson 64 Margaret Gilbertson 63 Margaret E Moffat 10
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°o.OOº°‘¨Claire in Wales¨‘°ºOO.o°
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29 Dec 2007 15:07 |
David John Gilbertson married Annie Murray Wright in 1883 Dumfries
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***Michelle***
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29 Dec 2007 15:25 |
Murray could be Annie's mothers maiden name?I have a few like that on my tree where the mothers maiden name is used as a middle name.Worth thinking about.
Michelle
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Thelma
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29 Dec 2007 15:25 |
Different David 1891 David John Gilbertson Annie Murray abt 1852 Gretna, Dumfriesshire Head Cummertrees Dumfriesshire
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°o.OOº°‘¨Claire in Wales¨‘°ºOO.o°
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29 Dec 2007 15:33 |
this is the only Annie Murphy I can find who lived in the right area
1881 Scotland Census about Annie Murphie Name: Annie Murphie [Annie Murphy] Age: 22 Estimated Birth Year: abt 1859 Relationship: Daughter Father's Name: Peter Gender: Female Where born: Dumfries Registration Number: 821 Registration district: Dumfries Civil Parish: Dumfries Town: Dfs County: Dumfriesshire Address: 2 English St. ED: 12 Page: 2 (click to see others on page) Household schedule number: 10 Line: 13 Roll: cssct1881_322 Household Members: Name Age Ellen Lawrie 22 Janet Lawrie 24 Annie Murphie 22 Jane Murphie 29 Peter Murphy 65 John Paton 20 1891 Scotland Census about Annie Murphy Name: Annie Murphy Age: 28 Estimated Birth Year: abt 1863 Relationship: Sister Gender: Female Where born: Dunge, Dumfriesshire Registration Number: 882 Registration district: Troqueer Civil Parish: Troqueer Town: Maxwelltown County: Kirkcudbrightshire Address: Stansfield ED: 6 Page: 7 (click to see others on page) Household schedule number: 32 Line: 17 Roll: CSSCT1891_404 Household Members: Name Age Mary Flint 25 Annie Murphy 28 Jane Murphy 37
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***Michelle***
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29 Dec 2007 16:14 |
1891 Scotland Census about George Gilbertson Name: George Gilbertson Age: 16 Estimated Birth Year: abt 1875 Relationship: Son Father's Name: John Mother's Name: Margaret Gender: Male Where born: Cummertrees, Dumfriesshire Registration Number: 817 Registration district: Cummertrees Civil Parish: Cummertrees County: Dumfriesshire Address: Powfoot Village Occupation: Tailor's Apprentice ED: 2 Page: 4 (click to see others on page) Household schedule number: 16 Line: 11 Roll: CSSCT1891_391 Household Members: Name Age George Gilbertson 16 Janet Gilbertson 11 John Gilbertson 55 Margaret Gilbertson 54 Margaret E Moffat 1 Jemima Murphie 7
1891 Scotland Census about Janet Gilbertson Name: Janet Gilbertson Age: 11 Estimated Birth Year: abt 1880 Relationship: Daur (Daughter) Father's Name: John Mother's Name: Margaret Gender: Female Where born: Cummertrees, Dumfriesshire Registration Number: 817 Registration district: Cummertrees Civil Parish: Cummertrees County: Dumfriesshire Address: Powfoot Village Occupation: Scholar ED: 2 Page: 4 (click to see others on page) Household schedule number: 16 Line: 12 Roll: CSSCT1891_391 Household Members: Name Age George Gilbertson 16 Janet Gilbertson 11 John Gilbertson 55 Margaret Gilbertson 54 Margaret E Moffat 1 Jemima Murphie 7 These are prob the Aunty and Uncle you mentioned living with Jemima's grandparents in 1891 census.They were son and daughter of Jemima's grandparents.
Michelle
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***Michelle***
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29 Dec 2007 16:18 |
George(Uncle) in 1901 Census he was listed as a fisherman
1901 Scotland Census about George Gilbertson Name: George Gilbertson Age: 26 Estimated Birth Year: abt 1875 Relationship: Son Father's Name: John Mother's Name: Margaret Gender: Male Where born: Cummertrees, Dumfriesshire Registration Number: 817 Registration district: Cummertrees Civil Parish: Cummertrees County: Dumfriesshire Address: Powfoot Stuartville Quunsberry Cottage Occupation: Fisherman (whitefish) ED: 2 Page: 4 (click to see others on page) Household schedule number: 14 Line: 18 Roll: CSSCT1901_428 Household Members: Name Age David Gilbertson 41 George Gilbertson 26 John Gilbertson 64 Margaret Gilbertson 63 Margaret E Moffat 10
Michelle
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***Michelle***
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29 Dec 2007 16:22 |
1881 Scotland Census about George Gilbertson Name: George Gilbertson Age: 7 Estimated Birth Year: abt 1874 Relationship: Son Father's Name: John Mother's Name: Margaret Gender: Male Where born: Cummertrees, Dumfriesshire Registration Number: 817 Registration district: Cummertrees Civil Parish: Cummertrees County: Dumfriesshire Address: Powfoot Village Occupation: Scholar ED: 2 Page: 7 (click to see others on page) Household schedule number: 25 Line: 6 Roll: cssct1881_321 Household Members: Name Age Elizabeth Gilbertson 11 George Gilbertson 7 Jane Ann Gilbertson 10 Janet Gilbertson 1 John Gilbertson 45 Margaret Gilbertson 44 Mary Gilbertson 15
Michelle
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***Michelle***
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29 Dec 2007 16:29 |
Jemima could have just been staying with the Grandparents on the night of the census?or being educated in that area.
Was common at these times.
Michelle
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***Michelle***
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29 Dec 2007 17:23 |
Until the 19th century almost all adoptions were handled informally. If a young woman was pregnant and wanted to place her child, she did, with whomever she wanted. Usually it was done with the advice and consent of her parents, and generally, the child was placed with a family member or someone from her local town. There were no agencies, counselors, attorneys, or facilitators. No legal papers were ever filed, the government didn’t get involved, and no one but the birth mother and her parents were ever consulted as to the welfare of the child.
In the late 19th century, closed adoption was born. The Victorian era had arrived to the detriment of our children. Children considered illegitimate were locked up and hidden away. Birth mothers became the scourge of society. They were labeled misfits, outcasts, bad girls, and were secretly whisked away to give birth to their children in nunnery’s and secret hospitals across the nation. Such women were considered immoral, disallowing them the freedom of choice given to them and their families in the past.
Agencies soon had complete power over the child, and birth mothers had little, if any, rights to their newborn babies. Infants were torn from their mother’s arms and taken to orphanages where adoptive families picked out babies and children with no known background or medical history. During the 19th century, this was purely a reflection of societal change. Laws making adoption secret were not passed until the late 1940’s and 50’s. Most baby- boomers grew up with the idea that a closed adoption is normal. In fact, it isn’t normal, and, it isn’t right.
Michelle
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°o.OOº°‘¨Claire in Wales¨‘°ºOO.o°
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29 Dec 2007 17:36 |
This is only what I think happened
Annie Murphie (could be the one with Jane) & David Glbertson had a baby Jemima. For some reason David didn't marry Annie, he spent the next 20 odd years working as a farm servant for the Graham family but never married. By 1901 he was back home & had a better job on the railways as a plate layer David's parents either raised or helped raise Jemima whilst Annie remained single & living with her sister Jane who was a butcher! The only problem is I can't find Jemima on the 1901 census for England or Scotland.
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°o.OOº°‘¨Claire in Wales¨‘°ºOO.o°
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29 Dec 2007 18:20 |
I tried Jemima, Mima & Mina & found nothing, sorry
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°o.OOº°‘¨Claire in Wales¨‘°ºOO.o°
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29 Dec 2007 20:41 |
1 possible from 1901 but I'mnotconvinced on this
1901 Scotland Census about Jamima Murphy Name: Jamima Murphy Age: 15 Estimated Birth Year: abt 1886 Relationship: Sister Gender: Female Where born: Maxwelton, Dumfrieshire Registration Number: 578/1 Registration district: Ayr Civil Parish: Ayr Town: Ayr County: Ayrshire Address: 20 New Bridge St Occupation: Mill Worker ED: 9 Page: 4 (click to see others on page) Household schedule number: 16 Line: 1 Roll: CSSCT1901_217 Household Members: Name Age Elizabeth Murphy 30 James Murphy 12 James Murphy 8 Jamima Murphy 15 Jamima Murphy 1 John Murphy 38 Robert Murphy 3
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