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Now ... the page with the Charles Jackson and Ann Oxley marriage in Q1 1859 does only show two names -- possibly an indication of missing names.

The list of Ann Evans-s who married in Q1 1859 has several that were illegible, and for which no link is given to an image. How useful.

So I downloaded the pages at Ancestry, and looked for an Ann marrying in Barnsley. The page is all perfectly legible, and there ain't none.

That's the same info though, right? Charles Jackson and Ann Evans?

Just because somebody states her mother's "married name" on a document, it doesn't mean she was actually married. ;) The daughter would likely not have known that her parents weren't married anyhow, if that was the case.

If I have the right people in 1861, and it looks pretty sure they must be -- he's the Charles with the right parents in 1851 and 1841 -- then they would have to have married in England, since that's where they were in 1861 when they had a child already.

(Whether the other children were born in England, I wouldn't bet; it's too easy to put dittos on census returns.)

And there just is not a Jackson-Evans marriage. Even allowing for mistranscriptions -- no missing brides or grooms or such, as far as I could see.

So a pre-existing marriage, with Charles and Ann merely shacked up for life, seems a plausible option.


This might be a good bet for birth of son William:


Births Jun 1865
Jackson William Barnsley 9c 123


but I don't see one that matches Lucy c1868. Perhaps she was born after the move to Scotland.

have come across a marriage cert for the district of Old Monklands for Elizabeth Ann Jackson to Joseph Collins 1879 she is age 19 her parents are Charles Jackson and Ann Jackson nee Evans sorry to put a spanner in the works

The names are so common that there'd be no way of knowing of a prior marriage without ordering a bunch of marriage certificates and matching up parents' names. Or tracking all the potential couples down to see whether they're in the 1861 census.

I might wonder about the Charles Jackson marriages in Derbyshire in the 1850s, for instance. There are no Ann Evans marriages in Barnsley in the 1850s.

How about if one of them had a pre-existing marriage they just kind of forgot about, and in fact did not marry?

I mean, that would be highly unusual, wouldn't it? ;)

That's what I'm wondering -- whether she might have been Evans married Oxley. Can't find one of them, either.

This could be Ann Evans in 1851 -- matches all the specs.


Name: Ann Evans
Age: 15
Estimated Birth Year: abt 1836
Relation: Daughter
Father's Name: Thomas
Mother's Name: Margaret
Gender: Female
Where born: Hoyland, Yorkshire, England

Civil Parish: Hoyland Nether
Town: Hoyland
County/Island: Yorkshire
Country: England

Registration district: Barnsley
Sub-registration district: Darfield
ED, institution, or vessel: 4b
Household schedule number: 129

Allice Evans 4
Ann Evans 15
Henry Evans 16
Jane Evans 12
John Evans 20
Joseph Evans 18
Lucy Evans 2
Margaret Evans 41
Margaret Evans 14
Mary Evans 23
Thomas Evans 51
Thomas Evans 7

info on scottish death cert gives the widows maiden surname as well as the deceased parents names - thanks to all who are answering you are a great help - you are all so good at finding the info

I suspect the Evans name may be, er, suspect.


Marriages Mar 1859
Jackson Charles Barnsley 9c 131
Oxley Ann Barnsley 9c 131


Birth could be:

Births Jun 1859
Jackson Elizabeth Barnsley 9c 131


There are two in 1860 that could match but the transcription is screwy and the image needs to be checked if anybody's ordering certificates.

Oh well done. But Im blowed if I can find an Evans/Jackson marriage. I dont spose Ann could have been a widow when she married?

1861 details for wife Ann Jackson and daughter Elizabeth Jackson:

Name: Ann Jackson
Age: 25
Estimated Birth Year: abt 1836
Relation: Wife
Spouse's Name: Charles
Gender: Female
Where born: Elsecar, Yorkshire, England

Name: Elizabeth W Jackson
Age: 1
Estimated Birth Year: abt 1860
Relation: Daughter
Father's Name: Charles
Mother's Name: Ann
Gender: Female
Where born: Elsecar, Yorkshire, England


Marriage must have been in Yorkshire ...

And I was going to be the one who deleted the 1871 census ref, since you beat me on that one. ;)

Not married, and in the wrong place -- although I thought the daughter's age in 1871 could be offish, and the marriage after the 1861 census..

But I've got 'em -- it's the Charles in Derbyshire I fingered. In 1861:


Name: Charles Jackson
Age: 25
Estimated Birth Year: abt 1836
Relation: Head
Spouse's Name: Ann
Gender: Male
Where born: Codnor, Derbyshire, England

Civil Parish: Nether Hoyland
Ecclesiastical parish: Elsecar
County/Island: Yorkshire
Country: England

Registration district: Barnsley
Sub-registration district: Darfield
ED, institution, or vessel: 8
Household schedule number: 168

Ann Jackson 25
Charles Jackson 25
Elizabeth W Jackson 1


Ta da. But where's the marriage?? Can't find it anywhere.

Blimey Kath, you whipped those in - LOL.

But that guy on his own 1861, boarder - is he married on that image? Oh its a scottish one - no image.

Hmm, just a thought 1861:



Hmm, 1861:

Elizabeth Jackson
Age: 1
Estimated Birth Year: abt 1860
Relation: Visitor
Gender: Female
Where born: Leeds, Yorkshire, England

Civil Parish: Thornton Hough
Ecclesiastical parish: Neston
County/Island: Cheshire
Country: England

Street address:

Occupation:

Condition as to marriage: View Image

Registration district: Wirral
Sub-registration district: Neston
ED, institution, or vessel: 5
Neighbors: View others on page
Household schedule number: 43
Household Members: Name Age
Ann Gittins 10
Easter Gittins 15
John Gittins 46
Martha Gittins 41
Martha Gittins 12
Sarah Gittins 18
>>>Ann J Jackson 24
>>>Elizabeth Jackson 1

For ref, this is the 1871 census record referred to:


Name: Charles Jackson
Age: 35
Estimated Birth Year: abt 1836
Relationship: Head
Spouse's name : Ann
Gender: Male
Where born: England
Registration Number: 652/2
Registration district: Old Monkland Middle District
Civil Parish: Old Monkland
Town: Coatbridge
County: Lanarkshire

Address: John Street Browns Land
Occupation: Labourer Iron Works

ED: 16
Page: 28 (click to see others on page)
Household schedule number: 139
Line: 14
Roll: CSSCT1871_148

Ann Jackson 35
Charles Jackson 35
Elizabeth Jackson 11
Lucy Jackson 3
W H Jackson 5

Just for reference:
1871
Elizabeth Jackson
Age: 11
Estimated Birth Year: abt 1860
Relationship: Daughter
Father's Name: Charles
Mother's Name: Ann
Gender: Female
Where born: England
Registration Number: 652/2
Registration district: Old Monkland Middle District
Civil Parish: Old Monkland
Town: Coatbridge
County: Lanarkshire
Address: John Street Browns Land
ED: 16
Page: 28 (click to see others on page)
Household schedule number: 139
Line: 16
Roll: CSSCT1871_148
Household Members: Name Age
Ann Jackson 35
Charles Jackson 35
Elizabeth Jackson 11
Lucy Jackson 3
W H Jackson 5

It still isn't clear.

How do you know Ann WATTS's surname? is the question, I think. Or was Charles Jackson's mother's surname on his death certificate? (Practice in Scotland, if he died there?)

To clarify the other bit, the 1871 census has them in Coatbridge, Scotland, all as born in England, is that it?


The only Charles Watts in 1851 who matches the specs (although there are loose Charles Watts-s of the rightish age not living with parents) is:


Name: Charles Jackson
Age: 15
Estimated Birth Year: abt 1836
Relation: Son
Father's Name: William
Mother's Name: Anne
Gender: Male
Where born: Codnor, Derbyshire, England

Civil Parish: Codnor Park
Ecclesiastical parish: Ironville
County/Island: Derbyshire
Country: England

Registration district: Basford
Sub-registration district: Greasley
ED, institution, or vessel: 7
Household schedule number: 44

Henry Green 7 Mo
Sarah Green 30
Ann Jackson 4
Anne Jackson 46
Charles Jackson 15
Elizebath Jackson 8
Thomas Jackson 13
William Jackson 50


By skimming through the results list for Charles Watts born approx 1836 in the English 1841 census, and hovering the mouse over "view results" to quickly check for William and Ann in the household, I had noted the same one (parents, brother Thomas, location):


Name: Charles Jackson
Age: 6
Estimated Birth Year: abt 1835
Gender: Male
Where born: Derbyshire, England

Civil Parish: Heanor
Hundred: Morlestone and Litchurch
County/Island: Derbyshire
Country: England

Registration district: Basford
Sub-registration district: Greasley

Ann Jackson 35
Charles Jackson 6
George Jackson 15
Martha Jackson 10
Sarah Jackson 12
Thomas Jackson 3
William Jackson 35
William Jackson 13


Again, that's about the only one who fits.

Although -- in 1841 there is this one with apparently widowed mother Ann:


Name: Charles Jackson
Age: 6
Estimated Birth Year: abt 1835
Gender: Male
Where born: Leicestershire, England

Civil Parish: St Margaret With Bishops Fee
Hundred: Leicester Borough
County/Island: Leicestershire
Country: England

Registration district: Leicester
Sub-registration district: East Leicester

Ann Jackson 35
Ann Jackson 2
Charles Jackson 6
Henry Jackson 15
Joseph Jackson 12
Sarah Jackson 1 Mo


and also:


Name: Charles Jackson
Age: 4
Estimated Birth Year: abt 1837
Gender: Male
Where born: Staffordshire, England

Civil Parish: Stone
Hundred: South Pirehill
County/Island: Staffordshire
Country: England

Registration district: Stone
Sub-registration district: Stone

Ann Hood 11
Ann Jackson 30
Charles Jackson 4


That covers birthdates 1835-1837, anyhow.


There are three undocumented submissions to the IGI for this William Jackson - Ann Watts marriage:

25 DEC 1827 Pentrich, Derby, England

and one for this one:

25 DEC 1827 South Wingfield, Derby, England

which pretty much looks like the same one, and which would just about give them time to have a 15-yr-old child in 1841.


There is also this properly documented one:


WILLIAM JACKSON
Spouse: ANN WATTS
Marriage: 21 FEB 1825 Solihull, Warwick, England
Batch No.: M010751


The parents from that 1861 household are:

Name: William Jackson
Age: 50
Estimated Birth Year: abt 1801
Relation: Head
Spouse's Name: Anne
Gender: Male
Where born: Brinsley, Nottinghamshire, England

Name: Anne Jackson
Age: 46
Estimated Birth Year: abt 1805
Relation: Wife
Spouse's Name: William
Gender: Female
Where born: Chesterfield, Derbyshire, England


Would this be your Charles in 1861?


Name: Charles Jackson
Age: 23
Estimated Birth Year: abt 1838
Relationship: Boarder
Gender: Male
Where born: England
Registration Number: 457
Registration district: Strathmiglo
Civil Parish: Strathmiglo
County: Fife
Address: Well Bank
Occupation: Hand Loom Linen Manufacturer
ED: 3
Page: 11 (click to see others on page)
Household schedule number: 55
Line: 6
Roll: CSSCT1861_60

Charles and Ann were born in 1836

got wifes name from charles death cert also have ann's death cert her parents were thomas evans and margaret -----------?

sorry charles and ann were born 1836