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Hmm, sounds as if the 1911 census would give very little more info then. I'd be inclined to wait until it is generally available!

All the best

I found Edward John Knight on the 1871/81/91 & 1901 census'. He was born about 1869 in Poughill, Cornwall. He was still living at home in 1901 with his mother, Ann & two sisters - which makes it seem likely he is my great-grandfather.

He had six siblings. They were certainly prolific in those days, considering they probably were quite poor. Makes for a huge family tree!

The electoral roll would probably only give me his name, as women weren't allowed to vote at that time.

This chap from the 1891 census does not seem to be on the 1901 census; the names are in the wrong order though.

Name: John Edward Knight
Age: 19
Estimated Birth Year: abt 1872
Relation: Soldier
Gender: Male
Where born: St Mary; London, Middlesex, England

Civil Parish: Aldershot
Ecclesiastical parish: St Michael
Town: Aldershot
County/Island: Hampshire
Country: England

Registration district: Farnham
Sub-registration district: Frimley
ED, institution, or vessel: 5th Dragoon Guard

Hi Carol,

If you have an address from a birth certificate once the second family is established, you can check on the electoral roll, but I'm not sure whether this would give you much more info than you had from the birth certificate...

If Edward is in the military, perhaps there are some military records? Apologies if you have already covered this point earlier.

I've now got the birth cert for Edith Pearce. Her parents were Richard & Emily and she was born in 1892 - so much for dad thinking she was the eldest! Edwin was first (c1886), Minnie (c1887), Edie (1892) and a boy (c1894). The younger two must be mixed up on the 1901 census. Emily couldn't read or write so presumably a census taker wrote the details down.

Emily and Richard married in June 1885. I think Ivy's death registration for Richard is correct. Emily was clearly on her own in 1901 but had my grandad by 1902 so I wouldn't be all that surprised if she didn't actually marry my great-grandfather and simply took his name. I haven't found a marriage registration.

The 1911 census would given me more information on my great-grandfather but I'm reluctant to pay £45. Maybe I can find out another way - any thoughts?

Hi Carol

There is limited access to the 1911 census. A search of a known address costs £45.

See

http://www.1911census.org.uk/

You could order Beatrice's certificate (Oct-Dec 1910) for £7, and use the address to request the 1911 census (pricey though). Moody Blue/Brenda found the ref for you above (see 20th Jan 21:23)

Keep us posted, lots of us are interested!

For anyone who is interested in an update.

I'm pretty certain that Emily Pearce on the 1901 census is my great-grandmother and that she was married to Richard Pearce. I'm sure that the Emily Pearce visiting the Rogers household in 1891 is a different one even though her husband (and Richard Pearce) were both seamen, although as was pointed out there seems to have been a lot of military activity in the area, so perhaps not unusual.

It's a real shame that the forenames of the Pearce children are missing from 1901. I think the 14 year-old is almost certainly Minnie but the other two are mysteries. The 7-year-old could well be Edie.

It's frustratingly difficult to be 100% on identifying ancestors as their places of birth often vary from census to census. Tracking Richard back (1871) shows him as being born in St Veep but his 1891 entry states Pelynt. It's not helped by the area being a ferry ride away from Devon as it seems to be interchangeable with Cornwall!

Also it appears unlikely that Emily married my great-grandfather. I wish we could get access to the 1911 census, I'm sure it would help.

Thanks Pam. I thought it might be some sort of code number but as I went through the enquiry process I realised what the GRO was.

This is a birth reference

Edith Emily Pearce
St Germans
December Quarter 1892
Volume 5c
Page 34

I decided to risk the marriage certificate of Emily Tope & Richard Pearce. That will get me a year of birth for her which will make it easier to trace her through the census' (providing it's her!!)

It's very easy to get a bit consumed by this family tree business!

Thanks for the help so far.

Which is the reference?

Purchase birth certificates from

www.gro.gov.uk. They cost £7 if you have the reference.

I think the three Knight siblings are a possibility, I'll have a look tomorrow. I'm not sure about Edie because she was the eldest of the first four. It seems a bit of a push for Emily to have three more children after 1892 and be married to my great-grandfather and have my grandfather by 1902 - although it is theoretically possible I suppose.

What would really help is if a parent was listed when you find a birth registration.

Do you know how much a copy birth certificate costs through ancestry.co.uk?

No, Beattie is definitely the youngest and it's Florence May, who will be 103 this April.

If the Knight children are all Devonport births, then it may be a slightly different order?

Gladys Florence 1904 3rd q
Elsie Beatrice 1909 3rd q
George H 1911 1st q

I see that Torpoint is on a peninsula in the Plymouth sound area, just oppposite Devonport; and that Maker is just a few miles (2 or 3 miles) further south.

Hi Carol,

One thing that struck me when I was looking at Knight/Pearce and Devonport/St Germans was the huge number of military families at both places. If Edward was Army/Navy, he may not be findable on the 1901 census - and the first of the second family is not born until 1902.

I'm not sure what Minnie is short for - there have been some threads on nicknames recently. Is Minnie Edie? Or is she Minnie E on the birth registration? Her age would just about fit to be 19 so that Violet is born at the same time as Florence?

Or was it that Florence being older, took a motherly interest in Violet? Would she be Violet Pearce born Devon/Cornwall approx 1905?

I've now got a bit more info from my dad. I got the children from the second marriage completely back to front. My grandfather was first (1902), then Florence (1905), George (c1907) and finally, Beattie (c1909). That explains why I can't find any of them listed in the census. He also said that the first family were from Torpoint.

Sylvia, I think you're right. I would say that the 1901 census shows Emily as widowed. That would tie in with Richard dying in 1899. I think that the un-named 14-year-old is Minnie (see 1891). Edwin would have been 15 so probably working and therefore in a different household.

The problem is that my dad remembers the eldest of Emily's 8 children as being Edith. She was referred to as "Auntie Edie from Looe". Edith had a child (Violet) to a lodger while her husband was at sea and treated her badly so Violet spent a lot of time with Emily and her family. Florence was especially close to Violet.

The entry Brenda found is interesting. The census lists baby William as Rogers but on the original document, he is William Pearce - obviously Emily's son. However, as this Emily was born c1870, she might be too young. I found an Emily Pearce in the 1901 census with a 10-year-old William, married to a William and living in West Ham.

I'm therefore still confused! I should be able to find my great-grandfather listed in the 1901 census. That would then give me Emily's year of birth. As my grandfather was born in 1902 in Devonport, I would expect to find the family in that area.

Thanks for your help though.

re the 1901 census

I think it has W in the column .. it is slightly differently formed from the M shown for others.

The census taker did not write any names in for any of the children! Weird!!

There is no occupation shown for the eldest daughter (age 14), the other two children are shown as Scholars.


sylvia

This may be the death of her first husband:

Deaths Dec 1899
Pearce Richard Henry 37 Liskeard 5c 37