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Ok Wayne once again I can't thank you enough for all your help. I'm off to bed now though, so goodnight to you. Hopefully we'll talk again soon

Pam

i'll still look for the other possible marriage and maybe a death for Charles between 1919 and 1924. It's always good to get your own cert copies in case someone has made an error.... you can also ring the local library to the births and ask who was living at the address's stated on the certs. Just ask for the local studies section and they will be able to help you...It's always worth a shot to see if indeed joseph was his real name and therefore at the address's or whether Charles is stated at the address's!

At the moment I don't have all their certs, but this is becoming fascinating! I've onlybeen going since Oct last year and I'm absolutely hooked. Some of my info was sent from my 5th cousin in Canada, but most of it has been trial and error on my part. Until today when these other certs turned up. You'vecertainly given me an awful lot to think about, and a lot of possibilities to follow up. Once again thank you for your time.

Pam

I've edited my post slighty....

Ok I've made a note of that too and will look for that too. Thanks

Could it be that your father always believed Albert was his father when in fact Charles was....? Do you have birth certs for everyone?

You might want to now get William's birth cert and see who his father was? could it indeed be Joseph? which would indicate that Annie may have lost her husband Charles and took up with his brother, already being a Whisken not seeing the need to remarry? or maybe there is a marriage not transcribed yet?.... I'll take a look for a Whisken-Whisken marriage for you.

There is also the point that if Charles did die and then Joseph also died that in fact poor annie had a very tragic life maybe she couldn't face the facts? or did she have an affair with Joseph and the death i have found isn't a relevant one? which means Joseph brought all the children up as his own and they never spoke of the reality to the children?

There is a Joseph Whisken death in Poplar, 3Q 1924 aged 59, 1c 285 which would give you roughly the right DoB of 1863.

Ok Charles parents were John Whisken b c1834 Saffron Walden snd Eliza Ann Turner B 2/9/1842 Great Sampford m 29/11/1863 Saffron Walden. They had 9 children and yes one of them was Joseph b 1863 (no death date) Saffron Walden. Others were

John William WISKIN Dec1864
Sarah Ann Wisken1867
Emily Wisken 1869
Eliza Ann Wisken Dec 1871
James Wisken Oct 1874
Ellen Mary Apr 1881
William WISKIN Apr 1889
and of course Charles All but William were born in SaffronWalden and William died in Brighton 1918.

Good luck
Pam

Sadly found Charles Henry's death record.... he was 2:(

Deaths Sep 1910 (>99%)
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Whisken Charles H 2 Holborn 1b 284

I cannot find a birth record for William Whisken 1916?

EDIT:

Found it now, not been transcribed yet!

right lemme rethink this getting a little confused myself now....

Ok now do we know the parents of Charles? and did he have a brother called Joseph?
I wonder if maybe they kindly offered to have the children up[on a death?... they were all born along time after the marriage...

That's another possibility too. I din'tknow about William until today (I guess because he didn't survive)
So I don't see why not.

Possibly another child?

Weirdly also called Charles... so could Charles and Annie of brought up his brother's children?

Births Sep 1908 (>99%)
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Whisken Charles Henry W.Ham 4a 23


Surname First name(s) Mother District Vol Page

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Births Jun 1912 (>99%)
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Whisken Henry J Bond W.Ham 4a 651

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Births Jun 1914 (>99%)
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WHISKEN Albert J Bond W.Ham 4a 657

Yep I agree. I hope I don't have to wait til 1911, but if I do I'll have to be patient. Actually I could try emailing the cousin who sent their cert and see if he noticed it and has any ideas. (See I can think for myself sometimes lol)

Pam

well for a deed poll change you'd probably have to contact kew, they do have a register, but it's not compulsary to put yourself on it... you might have to wait until the 1911 census and see what he called himself ! all we know for sure that somewhere between 1907 and 1912 (when we know the first child born) he changed from Joseph to Charles.... now he might have done that completely body and soul!! but then he might just have done it in name only.... they married in 1907 but didn't have children until 1912? seems a little strange tho?

I don't know how many years you've been doing this Wayne, but you certainly come up with ideas I'd never think of! How would I go about checking that out then please?

Pam

now the other option is that Charles was a known name.... and in fact he was actaully Joseph? or maybe he has changed his name by deed?

I know about the name change. All the sons are spelt with a 'H'. All the way through my line there are name changes even in the same families. Some I've yet to verify but the problem arises when somewhere like Free BMD have the spelt without an 'H' and somewhere includes it. The other problem is that some are spelt Wiskin (i not e) As you can imagine this can cause a lot of confusion at times. Thanks for pointing it out though.

Pam

Now i have found something...

Charles's name is Wisken...

Births Mar 1878 (>99%)
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Wisken Charles Saffron W. 4a 475

your father is a Whisken.... notice the extra 'H' and so is Joseph....

Births Mar 1876 (>99%)
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Whisken Joseph Dartford 2a 423


I know this is a silly question.... but do you have the right birth certs?

EDIT:

Just for the record there is NO Charles Whisken born between 1870 and 1880.

Thank you so much for all your efforts Wayne I really appreciate it. I'll start to look at Joseph and see what I can come up with.

Best wishes
Pam