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I must say I was surprised to get he cert that quick , I am quite excited now , its so sad what happened , I rang the last surviving sister and she did not even know they had a brother who is that Alexander I am trying find .

Well that was fast! I wait a good two weeks over here. Of course, I could always pay for express post ...

Excellent! I hadn't even realized you didn't have her birth, before. ;)

Do contact that organization in Peterborough too -- you never know what they might have by way of memorabilia and so on. Someone I talked to on a genforum board once had got hold of copies of a Barnardo's newsletter with letters from her two girls in it. The group in Peterborough seems quite determined to keep the history alive.

Did I mention? I'm sure I did. My mum's mother immigrated as a child with her parents and two older sisters. One sister married a Barnardo's boy around 1920. His family -- my mum's cousins -- had apparently always been given to believe he was an orphan who didn't know his parents, and "Charlie Smith" was an assigned orphan name. Well, I found his marriage record at Ancestry, and there on the image plain as day were both his parents' names. He and his father before him were both Charles Samuel Smith! So I've been able to track both his parents' families back a bit, but no luck finding more distant cousins. Not even sure whether any of his sibs came too, when the parents died.

Anyhow, he was one of the farm labour boys; found him as a teenager in the 1911 census. He went on to be a successful farmer in his own right, well into old age. Always brought my grandmother bushels of rhubarb, which she stewed and made pies of and I made myself ill on when I stayed over. It was a hard thing happened to a lot of the kids, but for the most part those who stayed (some did go home as adults) made good lives, I think.

wel Kathryn got the birth cert and it is my Daisy, thanks for your help I have written to Dr Barnados at Ilford too.

I have just managed to read all the replies again ,and you are a wonderful lot I have copied and pasted all the info and am determined to find out about her even more than ever now .
I shall let you know if I find out more thanks again

No, Val, I suspect it is your Daisy still.

There's no Daisy Lillian Pope in the GRO who matches these details, and she's such a close match for your Daisy in other ways -- the statement on her first marriage that her parents' names were not known and she was a Barnardo child being the big one -- that I think there's a very good chance she's yours.

I have to run but I'll get back on the weekend some time. But yes indeed, do ask the Aunt whether she remembers anything at all!

thank you so much sorry I could not get back kept losing my connection tonight so its not my Daisy then ah well
I am going to ring that Aunt again to see if she remembers anything else.

Name: Daisy Lillian Read
Birth Place: Eastlansing Eng
Age: 28
Estimated Birth Year: abt 1891
Father Name: William Pope
Mother Name: Alice Pope
Spouse Name: Frank Edward Freeman
Spouse's Age: 38
Spouse Estimated Birth Year: abt 1881
Spouse Birth Place: Birmingham Eng
Spouse Father Name: Edward Freeman
Spouse Mother Name: Elizabeth Whitehead
Marriage Date: 30 Apr 1919
Marriage Place: Perth
Marriage County: Perth
Family History Library Microfilm: MS932_501


She's got a little more specific about her parents. Hmm. Could be I've got the wrong Daisy ... or those could be adoptive parents. No William Pope + Alice marriage in Ontario; loads in England.

What's Eastlansing? I know the East Lansing in Michigan ...

Checked image. It's Easbourne, i.e. Sussex.

She's Daisy Lillian. The West Ham Daisy is Daisy Elizabeth.

Now, Lillian was a very fashionable name. My grandmother's name was Lily, and my snooty grandfather made her become Lilian when they married in the early 20s. Daisy, without a known middle name, could have just adopted it. There was no Daisy Lillian born in England to match.

Ah, it must be.

I checked 519 area code for Reads, and there are many of them. Zorra Tnshp is around Ingersoll, so I figured migration to London made sense; lots there too.

But Stratford, and a different surname, well. She may have had kids as Read; no access to records, of course.

http://findaperson.canada-411.ca/person

There's one Freeman in Stratford now -- and three Reads.


Name: William Henry Read
Year of Registration: 1891
Quarter of Registration: Jul-Aug-Sep
District: Bath
County: Avon, Somerset
Volume: 5c
Page: 584

June, I guess. ;)

Great piece of detective work, Kathryn!
I wonder if it's her husband who enlisted for WW1?
William Henry Read, born 13 June 1891, Bath, Somersetshire, England. (It said on the 1911 census that he was born England, although it said May 1891),
His next of kin was wife Daisy, 96 Wellington St., Stratford. (The Canadian one!)
If it was him, he was killed in the war. It said husband of Daisy L. Freeman, formerly Read. These details were filled in much later so it looks as if she married again after he died.

But here's a thought, trying again with birthdate 1891 ...


In 1901 (oops -- EDIT -- that's 1911, not 1901):


Name: Daisy Read
Gender: Female
Marital Status: Married
Age: 20
Birth Date: Apr 1891
Birthplace: England
Family Number: 54
Relation to Head of House: Wife
Spouse's Name: William - farm hand
Immigration Year: 1900
Tribal: English
Province: Ontario
District: Oxford North
District Number: 106
Sub-District: Zorra West Township, Harrington Village
Sub-District Number: 31
Census Year: 1911
Page: 5

William Read 20
Daisy Read 20


Marriage:



Name: William Henry Read
Age: 21
Estimated Birth Year: abt 1889
Father Name: John H. Read
Mother Name: Jane Read
Spouse Name: Daisy Lillian Pope
Spouse's Age: 19
Spouse Estimated Birth Year: abt 1891
Spouse Father Name: Pope
Spouse Mother Name: Pope
Marriage Date: 17 Mar 1910
Marriage Place: Peterborough
Marriage County: Peterborough
Family History Library Microfilm: MS932_149



They married in Peterborough. The parents' names are pro forma. Oh yes! The record actually doesn't give parents' names; they've just been stuck in by Ancestry. The record says:


Don't know her parents' names. Came out to this country through Barnardo Home.


It's her! It's Daisy!

(There's no Daisy Pope in the Home Children database.)


The witnesses were Katie Webb and Janet Sanders. Webb was the name of the officiant, so I doubt that one was related. Sadly, no sister for a witness.


One down!

wow Kathryn I am going to send for that birth cert of Daisy
It would make sense as my nan named her children after them and she had a Rose and a Daisy will let you know thanks again
Plus thats where they were living in Mile End

No more luck, sorry! I checked out a few Daisys and Elizabeths and Roses from the censuses, in Ontario, by looking up their marriages and/or children's births for their surnames, but no match. And no trace of Alexander.

Also searched for marriages by first names with parents' names.

If the girls were fortunate and genuinely adopted, they might have stated the adoptive parents' names when they married, and married under their adopted surname.

I'd be pretty sure that the Daisy in the 1901 census is yours, and that the birth and death of the child Lillie were your Elizabeth. There just weren't that many Mullers around at that time, for there to be people with the same names and personal details.

Of course, Daisy would be the one whose birthdate we don't know. ;) -- but oh look, we're a year out:

Name: Daisy Muller
Year of Registration: 1891
Quarter of Registration: Apr-May-Jun
District: Mile End Old Town
County: London, Middlesex
Volume: 1c
Page: 475

The 1901 Daisy in Canada was born in March, which could be consistent. Maybe she thought she was born in 1890 too! Seriously -- it wouldn't be surprising if children who were placed in care and emigrated at young ages didn't know their year of birth.

the birth date of Rose is 05/05/1888 Elizabeths is 31/07/1880
I have not got the cert of Daisy.
They also ahd a boy Alexander born 28/08/1882 who I cannot trace so do wonder if he was one of the children sent and not two girls.
Thank you all so much its much appreciated

wow thanks so much I have not been on the pc today so didnt realise there were so many answers
Parents names were Adam and Elizabeth Muller .
Adam died in 1892 and I was told two of the daughters were sent to Canada as the mother had died too but I cannot find any trace of her death ,she was alive when Adam died .
I do have the birth dates will go and dig them out .
I am going to copy and paste this info thanks so much
I was also told they both married quite successfully , but of course family stories do get changed ????

Will somebody tell *me* the parents' names? so I don't have to go scouring censuses looking for 'em.

Just to try to get a definite result on the question of whether any of the three girls married in Ontario.

The marriage of the parents is on FreeBMD as taking place in Kent. Get in touch with Barnardo's at Ilford they have information on the children who were shipped out to Canada. I have a copy of the yearly report made on my grandfather's brother who was shipped out to Canada after their mother died. Good luck Irene

One other thing -- if you know the girls' parents' names (I don't know what relation these girls are to you), they can be used for searching the marriage records.

With Elizabeth having already been an unwed mother, this person in the 1901 could be her. The record is totally slapdash, with everyone as a ditto to everyone else when it comes to place of birth and religion, for the most part.


Name: Eliza Miller
Gender: Female
Marital Status: Single
Age: 23
Birth Date: abt 1878
Birthplace: Ontario
Relation to Head of House: Charity
Racial or Tribal Origin: Eng (English)
Nationality: Canadian
Religion: Roman Catholic
Occupation: Work Of Keep [it says Work for Keep]
Province: Ontario
District: York (West/Ouest)
District Number: 131
Sub-District: Toronto (City/Cité) Ward/Quartier No. 6
Sub-District Number: G-10
Page: 17


It's quite a large institution, obviously run by nuns.

Unfortunately, there actually seem to be several pages missing before that page, so I can't identify it.


It may be that Daisy and Rose were among the fortunate ones who were taken in as adopted children, and don't show up in the censuses or marriage records (to 1934) because they have the adoptive parents' surnames. I found the same problem once before, trying to help someone find two sisters who came to Canada as home children and promptly disappeared - not in the censuses and no marriages.

It does look like Elizabeth wasn't as fortunate, but I haven't been able to find any further trace of her after the birth and death of that child, other than the possible 1901 sighting.

I'd contact the Hazelbrae people if you want to try going farther!

NUDGE FOR MORE INFORMATION

A birth that might be of interest:


Name: Lily Muller
Date of Birth: 3 Dec 1897
Gender: Female
Birth County: York ( = Toronto)
Father's Name: Illegilimate
Mother's Name: Elizabeth Muller
Roll Number: MS929_137


Birth records are only accessible up to 1907.

Ah, unfortunately:

Name: Lilly Muller
Death Date: 30 Jan 1898
Death Location: York
Gender: Female
Estimated Birth Year: abt 1898
Birth Location: Toronto

Original says age 6 mo, address 214 Farley, Toronto, informant was unfortunately the doctor, cause of death Tabes Merienterient, I'd say.