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Peter:

PETER BREEN
Birth: 05 DEC 1870 , Dublin, Ireland

Parents:
Father: PETER BREEN Family
Mother: ANNE COSTELLO

Rose

This fits with the Joseph who died in 1889:

From IGI:
JOSEPH BREEN
Birth: 26 JAN 1868 , Louth, Ireland
Parents:
Father: PETER BREEN Family
Mother: ANNE COSTELLO

Batch No.: C014084

Rose

Hi Lisa,

So far you would not expect to have seen Joseph Alphonsus Breen - he seems to have married as Joseph Breen in the late 1880s and died before the 1891 census. The 1891 census shows Peter Francis' elder children born in Ireland, so there will not be a birth registration from the GRO for England and Wales.

You may be able to find the family in Liverpool by 1881 though?

[Ed: OK, have re-read Mabel's posting - Joseph is not with them in 1881. The eldest son Peter is living nearby, so perhap Joseph is also to be found in 1881? He may be still in Ireland though...]

The easiest way to make the connection should be via the marriage certificate:

- this is what Claire posted yesterday giving the references:

His parent's marriage

>>Joseph Breen 1888 Jul-Aug-Sep Liverpool (1837-1934) Lancashire
View Record

>>Elizabeth Ann Mahony 1888 Jul-Aug-Sep Liverpool (1837-1934) Lancashire

Both Joseph and Elizabeth should give some information about their fathers.

Thanks so much for all your help, just need to make the conenction between Joseph Alphonsus and Peter Breen who was Joseph Juniors grandad but so far there is no mention of a Joseph Alphonsus being the son of Peter Janees Breen?!?!?

Lisa this may be joseph's fathers death registration:

Breen Joseph Alphonsus, June 1889, Age 21, West Derby, 8b 21

Mabel

Just reread your message and you mentioned a granny Burrell so the above is correct.

Rose

Looks like Burrell on the image:

1891 England Census
about Joseph Buswell
Name: Joseph Buswell
Age: 2
Estimated Birth Year: abt 1889
Relation: Son
Father's Name: William
Mother's Name: Elizabeth Ann
Gender: Male
Where born: Liverpool, Lancashire, England
Civil Parish: Everton
Ecclesiastical parish: Christchurch
Town: Everton
County/Island: Lancashire
Country: England
Condition as to marriage:
Registration district: West Derby
Sub-registration district: North Everton
ED, institution, or vessel: 9
Neighbors: View others on page
Household Members: Name Age
Lavina Battmans 3
Mary A Battmans 11
Mary Jane Battmans 35
Elizabeth Ann Buswell 28
Hannah Buswell 8
Joseph Buswell 2
Mary Jane Buswell 19
William Buswell 28

Rose

If you're missing him in 1891 it could be because his mum remarried:

Marriages Mar 1891
Breen Elizabeth Ann W. Derby 8b 661
Burrell William W. Derby 8b 661

Rose

maybe he just didn't get on with his stepmother for some reason??



sylvia

Yes it may well be usd, so why is that put on birth certficates?
Fitzie, the address of the tobacco factory was 244,246,248 Scotland Road.

The 'S' in U.S.D. = Sanitation

Reg

On the birth certificate in the when and where born it says 21 Field Street u.s.a. and in the name and address of mother it was 21 field street everton. How is this?

His parent's marriage

>>Joseph Breen 1888 Jul-Aug-Sep Liverpool (1837-1934) Lancashire
View Record

Mary Ann Campbell 1888 Jul-Aug-Sep Liverpool (1837-1934) Lancashire


>>Elizabeth Ann Mahony 1888 Jul-Aug-Sep Liverpool (1837-1934) Lancashire

Look for possible deaths of his parents.......they will be on freebmd

Reg

Received Joseph's birth certificate this morning, his dad was Joseph Breen who was a Tailor Journeyman, and his wife was Elizabeth Ann Breen (maiden name Mahoney) They lived at 21 Field Street in 1889! Still need to figure out why he ended up living at his grandparents!

Yes he was 64 because my nan told me he never got chance to claim his pension!

Wow Mabel,
thank you, it all makes sense, I had a feeling in the end that Joseph was born Dec 1888! I have ordered a certificate today, so should have it by the weekend and will keep you informed . Thank you for your hard work. Lisa x

HiLisa I have found the family you described on the 1901 census and also had a look around and found them on the 1891 and 1881 census as well. Unfortunately I am not sure who Joseph’s mother was but the following info will tell you more about the family

1901 Census

36 Guelph Street, West Derby, Liverpool, Lancashire

Peter Francis Breen, Head, Age 54, b 1847, Ireland, Tailor
Jane Breen Wife Age 54 b 1847 Ireland
Mary Jane Breen Daughter Age 21 b 1880 Liverpool, Lancashire, Tailor Machinist
Edward Breen Son Age 18 b 1883 Liverpool Lancashire, Tailor
Ellen Pauline Breen Daughter Age 16 b 1885 Liverpool Lancashire, Sweet Confectioner
Joseph Breen Grandson Age 12 b1889 Liverpool Lancashire

Also Found on BDM

Ann Breen Death registered June 1892 Age 43 West Derby 8b 398
Peter James Breen Married Jane McLoughlin Dec 1892 Birkenhead Cheshire 8a 893

So it looks like Peter’s first wife Ann died just after the 1891 Census and he remarried shortly afterwards to Jane who appears on the 1901 Census

1891 Census

29 Chapel Place, West Derby, St Mary of the Virgin Liverpool

Peter D Breen, Head Age 45 b 1846 Ireland Tailor’s Cutter
Ann Breen, Wife Age 43 b 1848 Ireland
Peter E Breen Son Age 20 b 1871 Ireland, Tailor
Nicholas Breen son Age 18 b 1873 Ireland Tailor
Mary D Breen Daughter Age 12 1879, Liverpool, Scholar
Ellen Breen Daughter Age 6 1885, Liverpool Scholar

Note

Entry on page above the family is for a Elizabeth Mary from a different family whose employment is listed as “Confectionary small sweets” and that may be how Ellen became involved in Confection by 1901 Census

1881 Census

111 Canterbury Street, Saint Annis, Liverpool, Lancashire

Peter Jas Breen Head Age 33 b 1848 Ireland Tailor
Anne Breen Wife Age 33 b 1848 Ireland Tailor’s wife
Peter E Breen Son Age 10 b 1871 Ireland Scholar
Nicholas Breen Son Age 8 b 1873 Ireland Scholar
Mary J Breen Age 2 b 1879 Liverpool Lancashire

Also on another 1901 census is a listing for a Peter Been who I think was the oldest son listed in the 1881 and 1891 census that by 1901 lives just down the street from his parents and Note what his occupation is as you mentioned Peter Senior was a tailor to the police.

1901 Census

39 Guelph Street, West Derby, St Mary of the Virgin, Liverpool

Peter Breen Head Age 30 b 1871 Ireland, Police Constable
Delia Breen Wife Age 28 b 1873 Ireland
Edward Been Son Age 2 Liverpool, Lancashire
Winifred Breen Daughter Age 1 Liverpool Lancashire
Mary Braniff Visitor Age 30 b 1871 Liverpool Lancashire

The following 1901 Census listing is I think the 2nd oldest son who is also no longer on the 1901 census with the family

1901 Census

73 Wennington Place, Southport, Lancashire

Nicholas E Breen Head Age 28 b 1873 Ireland Tailor Journeyman
Gertrude Breen Wife Age 24 b 1877 Brixton Derbyshire

Also found this:

Mary Jane Breen Married either James Herbert Jones or John Kenolty West Derby Registered June 1910 8b 713

I think this does look like Joseph’s family giving the details about occupations etc it would be a good idea to get a birth certificate for him and the most likely choice I could find was:

Joseph Breen Birth Registered March 1889 West Derby 8b 263
As I think that being a December baby he was born in 1888 not 1889 and then registered in the following quarter which would be March 1889. This is because you said that he died in 1954 aged 65 and unless the death occurred after December 17th then he still would have been 64 if he had been born in 1889.

Would love to here back on your thoughts on this

Mabel

Marriage reg'n.........

Name: Joseph Breen
Year of Registration: 1912
Quarter of Registration: Jul-Aug-Sep
Spouse's Surname: Barton
District: West Derby
County: Lancashire
Volume: 8b
Page: 931

Reg

lol, I thought it said Janees lol, of course its Frances I just can't tread the fancy writing lol, thanks reg, will carry on digging about Joseph, thanks Reg