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Hello JaneyCanuck,

Good to hear from you again.

Well, at least I don't feel so ignorant, now! I mill have to listen out for the differences between Canadians and Americans, as you described them.

Now Ancestry is up and running, I've had a quick play with it; there is certainly plenty to get my teeth into. I think my 'free fortnight' will turn into a proper subscription now I have found my family line! The long run of census records is superb for finding subsequent generations easily - I'm going to enjoy this! Many thanks for the tips, too; I have already noticed a link to others researching the same families - that could prove rather interesting, too

I have my post-op check up tomorrow, but so far all seems well. I'll keep you posted..

Well, summer appears to have arrived, so I'm just out to top up the tan (mow the grass, actually!). I will keep in touch,

Kindest regards,

Martyn

Glad it went well. Most do!

The thing with Cdn/US accents (other than that we say Eh? and they say Huh?) is that Canadians actually sound like the USAmericans you hear on television. They all just think they do. ;)

Actually, there are differences even there; there are a lot of Canadians who are national newscasters in the US (e.g. Keith Morrison, and currently John Roberts on CNN, formerly a VJ named JD Roberts in Toronto). They have to take lessons on how to sound Amurican. A lot of it is emphasis; we are more mumblers, and don't emphasize words within sentences as much as they do.

And of couse, we say "aboot". Or so they think we do. ;)

Ancestry has been down for more than upgrading. It's been broken. When you can, play with it -- and report your findings! And also, when you do find records you are sure are your people, add alternative info to them, e.g. in the censuses -- you can just put a variation of their name (or correct misspellings), and then note your relationship and invite contacts and include an (anonymous online) email address ... have I said all this? ;)

Anyhow, if you do sort out the clans, I'd be curious!

Hello, JaneyCanuk.

Well, I've just had the op. and, touch wood, all seems to be fine.

It looks as though you were correct; I have done more digging and am pretty confident now that Port Hope was a first foot in Canada and from there my Greenaways headed to Mariposa, where they bought their farm. So, no rich pickings there, real estate-wise, but hopefully I should now be able to find more of the descendants.

It is amazing that the US TV programme makers chose Port Hope as their typical 'Smalltown America', I would have thought there would have been many candidates for that accolade in the US itself - but, heh! what do I know? I have only visited the US once (N, Carolina) and never Canada. From the web link, however, it does look a lovely place, Maybe, one day, I'll get to visit S. Ontario, who knows? Regarding American/Canadian accents, I am being a bit of a philistine now, but I cannot tell the one from the other. I can identify the John Wayne-type Texan drawl and the Appalachian 'hill-billy' accent, but, other than those, I'm floundering.

I actually got around to signing up to Ancestry,Ca yesterday. It really looks as though it is going to be useful. However, I've tried to go into it today and guess what ......... it is 'down' for updating. How's that for good timing?

Anyway, now I'm back with two eyes, I'll keep you fully updated on my results.

Kindest regards,

Martyn

Yeah ... my post-cataract op steroids (taken for too long because of the bad surgery) caused glaucoma, permanent in that eye. And the second surgery, larger corneal incision needed to retrieve the first fake lens that had gone awry, caused bad astigmatism from the now distorted cornea. I think if you put us together you get two sides of a coin!

Odd thing is that between the glaucoma and the Raynaud's disease, I'm in danger of old-age blindness and problems from poor circulation in the extremities -- just like my No.1 from his diabetes. You'd think I could have come up wtih the other side of that coin, something I'd still have intact when he didn't, and vice versa!

Since we're here at GenesReunited, I'll blame our genes. ;)

I wasn't actually so familiar with the effect of the Corn Laws on emigration, but now that you mention it. The Scottish enclosures sure brought a lot of Scots here, as did the Irish potato famines. Southern Ontario was pretty well occupied by the earlier and often more upper-class English and the Family Compact - the CofE Tories who ran the show at the time.

The newcomers mid-18th century were left with north of Lake Ontario and the St Lawrence, for instance, which is rocky and has a shorter growing season. But once you sort these people out, you should visit the area! Port Hope really is the most charming little town. In fact, a new US television series was filmed there, as a stand-in for perfect smalltownsville USA.

http://www.northumberlandnews.com/entertainment/article/152658

We watched the first episode, and I almost wished I hadn't known it was Port Hope. Watching redneck sheriffs and listening to strange south of the border drawls in pretty quintessentially English Ontario Port Hope ... just too incongruous.

Pix:

http://images.google.ca/images?num=30&hl=en&q=port+hope+ontario

Finding pix of Mariposa is a little tricker because of the Mariposa Folk Festival in Toronto:

http://images.google.ca/images?hl=en&tbs=isch%3A1&sa=1&q=mariposa+ontario+-festival

I actually didn't know it existed, since Stephen Leacock's "Sunshine Sketches of a Little Town", which took place in Mariposa, Ontario, was about a fictional place.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Mariposa_(fictional_town)

So I hope the eye op is over?! At least the steroids can't give you cataracts now. ;)

Hello, JaneyCanuk

I read with interest the weblinks you posted.

How unlucky of you to have had the problems so described! Selfishly, I hope I don't join you in experiencing them - the doctors have been messing around with my eyes for too long, now. Interestingly, it mentions post-operative use of steroids causing cataracts; that is precisely what happened to me, following my corneal graft op.. Heh ho!

i Googled Mariposa - not a lot there, is there? It is very reminiscent of the Cambridgeshire Fens in this country - very rich soil, but the whole area is very flat and boring. It is nothing like the countryside they left behind in Cornwall. However, both agriculturally and politically they would have been far better off in Southern Ontario. (Politically, as it was the Government of the time which, by introducing the infamous Corn Laws, led to depopulation of much of our more marginal farming areas; people were literally starving because they were not getting a realistic price for their produce. This consequently led to a collapse in the entire local economy of those ares.)

Sorry, this is getting heavy, isn't it? What with our General election a definite political overkill!

I hope to be allowed to the computer more, soon (by my wife!), so I will carry on my researches - watch this space!

Kindest regards,

Martyn

My other one went fine. ;) Telling you about it prompted me to actually find out what was going on -- my new ophthalmologist finally muttered to me about "spokes" on my last visit (of many). I am missing the zonules in that eye. And the first ophthalmologist did not do what should have been done when things went wrong.

http://www.osnsupersite.com/view.aspx?rid=6818

You can see them here:

http://www.99main.com/~charlief/Blindness.htm

I am a rare and special case. Fear not!

You can find Mariposa at google maps! 40-50 miles NW of Port Hope. Very small place. Farming. Zoom in on satellite view and have a look!

Hello, Janey Canuk,

Many thanks for your best wishes, though your experiences of the cataract operation I found a bit disturbing............it's a cataract op. I'm to have!
I had a corneal graft a few years back, which went well, but the subsequent medication (steroids) led to the lens being attacked. My consultant wants to do the job herself............. and with me asleep :-)

Regarding my Greenaway research, I think you could be correct in thinking the Port Hope clan are the Poundstock ones. I have subsequently learned that my lot initially went to Port Hope, but then moved on 'further west.' Looking in the 1881 census, it appears the family settled at Mariposa, Victoria South, Ontario. Do you know where this is? William and his son, William John, were entered as farmers, so presumably, must have bought some land and farmed it between them.

As I find out more, I will keep you posted, but if you can find out more about that area of Ontario I would be keen to hear..

Kindest regards,

Martyn

Ah, eye operations. Mine are well known hereabouts! Botched cataract surgery three years ago led to a lens reimplant, vitrectomy and removal of retinal scarring back in September. Apparently I have the rare condition of having no "spokes" holding the lens membrane to my iris, so I now have a kind of free-floating lens sitting atop where it should be. I still haven't been able to get a straight answer as to whether the original surgery was botched or it's all just because of my missing spokes, actually. But it's been fun.

So I know somewhat of the joy you are having. Demand enough sedative before and during the excitement that you are somewhere else, is my advice! Best wishes, and just update us as and when.

Good morning, JaneyCanuk.

I can certainly see why you are starting to doubt the Kilkhampton/Port Hope link.

However, there is apparently evidence coming my way - from Keith Greenaway's daughter - which, I am led to believe, upholds my belief.

There is also anecdotal evidence that two Greenaways from Port Hope visited Kilkhampton looking for evidence of their ancestry. This, of course, could come under the 'family lore' category, too.

However, I will keep digging, to see what turns up - if anything! Unfortunately, I am about to have an operation on my eye, so I have had to severely restrict my use of the computer (rigorously policed by my wife!!). However, once fixed, I will be raring to go, again.

Kindest regards,

Martyn

I'm really wondering whether the Port Hope Greenaways aren't really the Poundstock Greenaways, and not your crew at all. That really is the impression I got from how the names in the early Cdn records all matched up with the Poundstock crew.

Your family lore might be based on an assumption somewhere along the line that wasn't accurate (as so many of our bits of family lore so often are).

Hello JaneyCanuk and MargaretManson,

Juist an update to share the results of your assistance.

MargaretManson

Regarding the book; I could not find it in the UK, so I e-mailed the author; Kathy Berquist. She confirmed it was not distributed in the UK, but has kindly offered to send me a copy. Additionally, Kathy has been in contact with Keith Greenaway's daughter, who asked for my contact details to enable her to personally contact me. It transpires she is a fellow family historian, so I am looking forward to see what she can add to my knowledge of the Greenaway family. (I also, unfortunately, learned that Keith Greenaway, the subject of the book, sadly passed away very recently, aged 94!)


JaneyCanck,

I have yet to tackle all the information you and others have kindly supplied. I did, however contact the person on the Port Hope website who was looking for information on Greenaways. It transpires, however, that her line of the family originated in Poundstock, Cornwall, rather than Kilkhampton, which is a shame. We have, though, agreed to share any information that is relevant to one or the other. I have also requested my name and details be added to the website - you never know....

As I said, just an update; I will tell you more as I learn of it.

Kindest regards,

Martyn

Good evening, JaneyCanuk,

Many thanks for pointing out the entry enquiring about 'Greenaways' and 'Andrews' families.

Following this reply I am going to set up a geemail account and respond to that person. It looks as though, hopefully, it could possibly be a fruitful contact.

Again, many thanks for all your assistance - I will let you know how I will get on.

Kindest regards,

Martyn

Just picked this out of the sea of info on the previous page -- at one link I gave you:

http://www.nhb.com/hunter/page.htm

there is that person in Oshawa looking for surname Greenaway -- and also surname *Andrews*.

That site tries to make sure that the email addresses on the messages posted are current, so you should have a good chance of reaching that person if you send a message.

Hello, Margaret Manson and mgnv,

Thank you both for your postings, which are very helpful indeed,

MargaretManson,

I didn't realise the book had been published so recently; I will redouble my efforts to get hold of a copy.

I have been rereading your previous posting and have found that one of the winesses at a marriage could well be from another Kilkhampton family - Andrews - who are connected to William Greenaway through marriage (his younger brother James); This could potentially be an interesting line of research - were they members of the Andrews family who emigrated to Canada with William in 1846?

mgnv

Many thanks for supplying the URLs. I haven't had the opportunity, yet, to use them, but they will certainly make life easier when I do. The examples you have provided and the methodology of their use, especially, will be highly useful.

I am really grateful to you both for all your help, as, indeed to all those others who have posted. Just a week ago, I was desperately thrashing around for a lead - now opportunities abound.

Can anyone now supply a fifty hour day?

Kindest regards,

Martyn

To illustrate census searches, lets look Jacob - at one of the Poundstock mob.
Start at: http://www.collectionscanada.gc.ca/genealogy/index-e.html

and drill down to the census links page:
http://www.collectionscanada.gc.ca/genealogy/022-911.009-e.html


1881 The LAC link:
http://data2.collectionscanada.gc.ca/e/e328/e008178004.pdf

1891 The LAC link:
http://data2.collectionscanada.gc.ca/1891/pdf/30953_148134-00186.pdf

For 1851, 1901, 1906, 1911 look up on AG, and note the location header, then look that up on LAC:

1901 Census of Canada Page Information
District: ON DURHAM (East/Est) (#55)
Subdistrict: Hope B-1 Page 2
http://data2.collectionscanada.gc.ca/1901/z/z002/z000057673.pdf
From above sched 1, note Page 2 Line 44, then locate sched 2 (the house's sched)
http://data2.collectionscanada.gc.ca/1901/z/z002/z000057669.pdf
[Con 1 Lot 2]

1911 Census of Canada
Home / 1911 / Ontario / Durham / 49 Port Hope / page 15 [& 16]
http://data2.collectionscanada.gc.ca/1911/pdf/e001983398.pdf
http://data2.collectionscanada.gc.ca/1911/pdf/e001983399.pdf

1916 only avail on Ancestry
[1906, 1916 don't cover Ontario]


1861 look up on Ancestry first, mostly so we know he's present, and his county:
Jacob Greenaway township, Northumberland, Canada West 1831 location
Jacob Greenaway township, Northumberland, Canada West
[The second hit is the agricultural schedule]

Now look him up on the LDS link:
Name: Jacob Greenaway
Gender: Male
Census place: Hamilton, Northumberland, Ontario
Age: 30y
Estimated birth year: 1831
Birthplace: England
Marital status: Married
Religion: W M
Sheet number: 96
Line number: 33
Film number: 2435929
Library and Archives Canada film number: C-1055-1056
Digital GS number: 4391947
Image number: 00521
Collection: Ontario Census 1861

then look up all Greenways in Ontario - specifying the county sometimes confuses the search, but all the hits we want are in Hamilton, Northumberland, Ontario.

1861
Jacob Greenaway 30 England
Mary Greenaway 30 U Canada
William Greenaway 3 U Canada
Pauline Greenaway 2 U Canada

There's also a Mary J Greenaway 16 U Canada on line 14 of same page - no idea who she is.

1871 is quite similar, and 1851 is like 1911 (except each census with its multiple schedules spans 4 pages = 3 images, but usually the last page is blank).
(Although Jacob's y.o.immig was left blank in 1901, it reads 1857 in 1911, so we shouldn't find him in 1851 in Canada).

1906 is like 1911, and 1916 is only available on Ancestry - both these censuses only cover the 3 prairie provinces (AB, SK, MB).

MM didn't post URL: http://www.rootsweb.ancestry.com/~onvsr/

For S Ontario, to see where Clarke/Hope Twp's are, click on Durham Co at:
http://digital.library.mcgill.ca/countyatlas/SearchMapframes.php
The remaining 90% of the province is N Ontario - their version of the North begins at Watford

There are some land records (homestead claims) for this twp:

Full record for Greeneway, Thomas
Last Name Greeneway
First Name Thomas
Township Hope
County Durham
Atlas Date 1878
Concession and Lot Lot size
II, 2 64

Full record for Greeneway, Thomas
Last Name Greeneway
First Name Thomas
Town Dale
Township Hope
County Durham
Atlas Date 1878

Last Name Greenaway
First Name N.
Township Hope
County Durham
Atlas Date 1878
Concession and Lot Lot size
III, 13 ?
III, 14 117

Last Name Greeneway
First Name N.
Township Hope
County Durham
Atlas Date 1878
Concession and Lot Lot size
IV, 27 50

To locate an Ontario rural address, i.e., Concession and Lot, one really needs a Twp map. Unlike the prairies, there isn't really a uniform land survey system. Ontario was in a race against time after the war of 1812-14 to get Ontario settled as a buffer against another US invasion, so each area was opened up to settlement as soon as it was surveyed (earlier sometimes, but that naturally caused later disputes).
The lot boundaries are remarkably persistent, and can usually be recognized on a modern satellite image.

Evidently the book is still available in Canada, Martyn.

Join us for the Thursday, 26 March 2009 meeting of the Ottawa Chapter of the Canadian Aviation Historical Society. That night Kathy Bergquist will share details from her new biography, Great Circles: The Keith Greenaway Story. In this, Kathy traces the full life story of Keith Greenaway; from wartime enlistment through post-war service as a respected expert and innovator in Arctic air navigation to recent time. Copies of Great Circles: The Keith Greenaway Story will be available for purchase that evening at a Special CAHS Ottawa Chapter Price. For details about the evening, see the attached Meeting Notice below.

As always, visitors and guests are most welcome.

Timothy Dubé
Chairman, Ottawa Chapter
Canadian Aviation Historical Society

Hello JaneyCanuck

Will do - on both counts!

Enjoy the weekend.

Kindest regards,

Martyn

Post in the thread, always post in the thread!

Whenever anybody who has posted in it clicks our "My threads" link, we see that there is something new. And don't have to scratch our heads about what a PM relates to and go hunting for the thread. ;)

Have fun!

Hello JaneyCanuk

Wow! that is one heap of work you have done for me! I am really grateful to you.

I understand that William Greenaway bought a farm in, or near, Port Hope, which his son eventually ran; I do not know when, or if, they sold up and benefited financially! Perhaps it is in the book I mentioned previously.

The web links you have supplied look as though they are going to be very interesting and I will definitely give them a spin. I am going to have a really busy time over the next few days!

I have checked out the Canadian !881 census - it has thrown up more details on William and his family, but the Thomas you found is not his brother - the birth dates do not tally. I have yet to check his other brothers and sisters to see if it is any of them. I know it will not be his brother, James, as I have found him and his wife on the English censuses from 1851 through to 1891!

Well, as I've said, thanks to you, especially, and the other posters, I now have plenty to work on - more than I ever anticipated when I initially posted! I will keep you posted as to the results on this thread, unless you would prefer me to use your pm..

Thank you very much,

Martyn