Genealogy Chat

Added to my photobucket site is a cropped copy of the section of the locally issued marriage cert, it's easy to see that the signatures are different to the entries made by the registrar.

If the link posted goes to a small image click the image for a larger version

http://i103.photobucket.com/albums/m146/glenintinselknickers/cert%20demo%20shot/Croppedsignatures.jpg

Glen

Sorry about my miss - use of the term GRO (I did add the word local to avoid confusion) please delete the G if it helps.I think most of us understand the difference, so no matter.

Glen, this is the sort of thing I would expect to see as an original copy. The sigs are in different hands so unless they tried to forge their signatures......!

J

Apologies for hijacking the thread to an extent.

Adding the links to the guide and the marriage cert are the only way i can think to show that there are differences.

As they are from original transcripts (and have less potential for transcription errors) and show the signatures makes them more personal for me.

Perhaps you should adopt some Lincolnshire rellies (or play hardball with local register offices!!)

Glen

Not all register offices have the facilities to send copies, so I have been told.

I have some scanned certificates with original signatures ...... just lifting down heavy folder of certificates .... ie a marriage in 1841, Little Glemham, Suffolk.

I have my parents' marriage cert which shows their signatures.

I've found several marriage certs on the Cityark site (Medway's on line) they show the original signatures as they are copied from the original registers. Blots and all!

Glen - No I dont think you have hijacked the thread lol
And I wish I did have ancestors in Lincs, well I do have have 1 or 2 or passed through there for a while, it would be nearer for me to do the research. Not than I am in Lincs but it is nearer to me than where the majority of my family was.

It has been good to hear the conflicting thoughts on the issue.

Ok I have now found my original marriage certificate (given to us by the vicar in the church on our wedding day). It has all our signatures on it - mine hubbies and 2 witnesses.

About what Joan said on page 2 about the varying X marks - they can be really interesting and varied. I have even seen one entry where a woman named Mary married and rather than putting an X she put a single letter M down as "her mark" (which is often written round the record). I found it intriguing - I wondered if she was literate or not and if somehow she had learnt enough to be able to write her initial.

Rather than guess if the certificates contain original singatures or clever copies.
Has anyone clear memories of their own wedding?
My wife,myself and the witnesses signed the register but the certificate was produced by a clerk.
We were not given the opportunity to sign the certificate.

Just had a look at certificates I have. I have some from Uk and Australia. The Australian ones are photocopies from the original certificates and have the signatures on them and are clearly by different people. The Uk ones are are handwritten copies by one person. Regards Heather

Jim, yes our wedding was the same. We signed the register, but the cert was sent to us a week later, written out by the minister, I think.

My mum's wedding cert was issued in the same way.

Just adding more information. The local reg office sent all their bmds every 3 months to GRO .

Mistakes could be made when the information was copied and sent . So GRO bmds are a copy of a copy

This is very interesting.I would have thought that a church would retain their marriage register and send returns to the registrar where they would be entered into their volumes.They in turn would send a duplicate volume to the GRO.
If that is the case original signatures are only in the church register.
Ps
Can you imagine how many churches there are in any district and how many marriages are performed at the same time.
It follows that they cannot use the same register.

I have a variety of certificates some with the original signatures some without. My Nans death certificate issued when registered hasn't got the informants signature but the copy of my birth certificate, obtained from the GRO is a scan of the original entry. (I'd recognise my Dad's signature anywhere!)
I also have a parish register entry with my 3xggrandparents signatures on. I always marvel at that because there can't have been many young people in Suffolk from working class backgrounds who could write in 1832.

My understanding is that every church had its own register, in which were entered all marriages and baptisms that took place. When a register was full, it was kept in the church safe box, usually under lock and key .................. or more recently sent to the local archives or cathedral.


The vicar sent information on marriages to the local Registry Office, which entered the information into THEIR record books.

Every few weeks or months, the information was copied out again and sent from the local office down to the GRO in London

Births and deaths were registered with the Registrar of the district or his deputy. Again the information was entered into the year book, and information copied out and sent down to GRO ar regular intervals.



BTW ...... we were married in 1967, and I have 10 ((ys TEN) copies of the certificate. We did NOT sign 10 times ....... the vicar had pre-prepared the copies the night before, up to a certain point. After we had signed the Church Register, he sat there and copied the names of the signatories over on to each copy. We stood around and chatted until he had finished, then he handed me all the copies.



sylvia

I have a copy of my Father's Death Certificate. He died in 1973 and I sent for the copy from the GRO in 2006. It has my signature on as the informant.

I agree with Sylvia - for church weddings the only real signature is in the Church Register, not in the Local RO register, not in the GRO register and not on the copy given to the happy couple. Well that's certainly the case for us (although we only had one copy, not Sylvia's 10 LOL) our copy was pre-written by the vicar. We only signed one copy and that was in a book (his register).
At a couple of civil weddings I've been to over the last year or so, the same applies.
Can't say for Births or Deaths as I haven't had to register any yet.

RobG

As has been mentioned before, each church has its own marriage register. The minister would file returns to the registrar at regular intervals. When the church register was full, the register would have been sent to the local register office. This is the first possibility for mistranscriptions to occur, when sending to the local register office. The local office would then send returns to the GRO, the second point for mistranscription. The GRO would then produce the BMD index, again possible mistranscribing details.
The only way to be certain of seeing original signatures on marriage certs is by looking at the parish registers that have been deposited at the register offices, copies of which are normally available at records offices on microfilm/fiche.

A very informative book entitled "A Comedy of Errors" or the Marriage records of England and Wales 1837-1899 by Michael Whitfield Foster explains all the errors/missing records etc.

LIGHT HEARTED COMMENT

I received a marriage certificate from local reg office, but as it was not a copy of the original, it will not fit in an A4 sleeve.

Gutted

Meg