Genealogy Chat

If you are new to researching and/or to the IGI, please bear the following in mind.

IGI: International Genealogical Index
found on:
http://www.familysearch.org/Eng/Search/frameset_search.asp

It is a database of mostly baptisms and marriage records put together by the Latter Day Saints church. It covers parishes all over the country, but it's really important to remember that some places are VERY well covered by the Index whilst other places do not appear.

There are broadly two sorts of records on the IGI. These are EXTRACTED records and SUBMITTED records. One or other of these words will appear on the record you are looking at, usually at the bottom.

EXTRACTED records are taken from a particular Parish Register, or other official source. They are as likely to be subject to errors of transcriptions, mistakes, typos etc as any other transcribed record anywhere. Check the ORIGINAL Parish Register for confirmation and often for additional information - Vicars marginal notes are rarely transcribed and can often be very revealing. To access the part of the IGI which shows ONLY transcribed records, go in through the Hugh Wallis IGI Batch Numbers site - google it.

SUBMITTED records are a free for all - anyone can submit anything to the IGI for inclusion. Nobody checks it. These records range from absolutely accurate (very rare, in my experience) right down to sheer fantasy, and in a few cases, malice. If looking at submitted records ask yourself - does it give dates and places? If it doesn't, it’s worthless, forget it and do your research some other way. If it does give dates and places, then check EACH and every fact as you go along. You only need to accept one fact which is incorrect, for your whole tree to be rubbish.

For example this is a member submitted entry :

Charles Smith
Male
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Event(s):
Birth: Oakley, Bedford, England
Christening:
Death:
Burial: 12 JUL 1776
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Messages:
Record submitted by a member of the LDS Church. The record often shows the name of the individual and his or her relationship to a descendant, shown as the heir, family representative, or relative. The original records are not indexed, and you may have to look at the film frame-by-frame to find the information you want. A family group record for this couple may be in the Family Group Record Collection; Archive Section. (See the Family History Library Catalog for the film number.) These records are alphabetical by name of the father or husband.
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Source Information:
Film Number: 183456
Page Number: 708
Reference number: 21988
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Try this Search as an “exercise”:

We are going to look for the baptism of JAMES TRAFFORD.

I know from various census, that he was born between 1803 and 1809, in Gawsworth, Cheshire.

Go to www.familysearch.org

On the home page, click on Advanced Search (next to the search form on the home page), or the yellow search tab at the top of the page, (ignore the search form on the first page).

A new screen appears. You will see Pedigree, Census, All Resources, and International Genealogical Index, on the left hand side. Click on International Genealogical Index.

A new screen appears with a search form.

Enter

(First name) James
(Surname) Trafford
(Event) Birth/baptism
(Year) 1807 plus or minus 5 years.
(Region) British Isles
(Country) England
(County) Cheshire.

Press search.

This gives three results - I ignore the first two as they are SUBMITTED records.

The third result is an EXTRACTION and gives me his baptism date and also the names of his parents - Thomas and Margaret Trafford, and a batch number P009421. You will also see the words Pedigree and Family; these are links to a new screen, which will show the ancestral chart for James Trafford (which may or may not be completed in full).

Click on the batch number P009421. A new screen opens, with a new search form.

I enter

(No first name)
Surname Trafford
Father's name Thomas Trafford.

(I do not enter the mother's name, because I know that she switches between Peggy and Margaret)

Click Search. This brings up the names of ten children.

I then order the parish register from the LDS and when it arrives, I check these baptisms. There are a few, small mistakes in the dates, but the parish register also contains their birth dates, and the fact that Thomas and Peggy/Margaret, are of 'Goose Tree Farm', which is confirmation that all ten children have the same parents.

To order a Parish Register film to view, you need to visit your nearest LDS centre in person because you have to pay for the film up front, understandably - varies between £2.50-£3. Phone first.

They will phone you when it arrives and you then have a month to view it at the centre. You can extend this period for a small sum, if no-one else has ordered the film. A film can take anything from two weeks to six months to arrive - it just depends on who else in the world is wanting to look at it.

The fee is for the hire of the film. You can then take photocopies of the entries - usually 10p, or if you ask nicely, some centres will allow you to take a digital photo (in which case, offer a small donation - the centres are free and are funded solely from donations).

I usually have the film for 3 months and extract EVERYTHING I think will be remotely useful - all instances of the same surname etc. In fact I have one film on permanent loan.

A list of all LDS Family History Centres is on their website - family search, as before.

If an IGI search still gives you no results, switch to All Resources search page. This (surprisingly) often picks up EXTRACTED records that didn’t appear in the IGI search.

There are more advanced ways of searching, but this is intended to help those who have never used the IGI before.

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Using the afore-mentioned as a guide, the same search format can be applied to Marriages.

These tips may work for you :

If your search gives a batch number you can also try searching with the number one above or one below that number - sometimes +/-2 or three, also.
You can also try the same batch number with the letter altered -for example, if you have C000000 then try M000000 for Marriages.

If you have a whole page of names, dates, places - if you use Control F you can type a name, date or place etc in the search box and quickly go through the page/s rather than having to trawl through every single name. Works in lots of other places as well.

With Batch Numbers :

C = Christenings
M = Marriages
P = Parent Search but comes up with baptisms if you are looking for the children of Parents, rather than for one individual baptism record.

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The 1881 census is free online in the LDS site familysearch.org.

The National Archives have a website - google for 1901 census and save to your Favourites. The web address should read www.nationalarchives.gov.uk/. This will give you a limited Free Name Search facility for the 1841, 1851, 1861, 1871, 1891 and 1901 census returns. However if you want to view the images you will have to pay - payment options are to buy a Voucher usually valid for six months, or set up a credit card account. I have found doing a limited Free Name Search alone provides enough clues to avoid having to pay to view an image.



LDS centres for anyone in Wales:

Cardiff Heol-Y-Deri, Rhiwbina, Cardiff, South Glamorgan, Phone: 02920-625342 Hours: M-Th 10am-4pm; T, Th 7pm-9pm

Chester Aled House, Lakeside Business Village, Flintshire, Merseyside Phone: 01244 538356 Hours: M, Th 10am-3pm; T, F 10am-12.30pm

Cwmbran Lds Chapel, The Highway, Croesceiliog, Gwent, Phone: 01633-483-856

Gaerwen Holyhead Road, Gaerwen, Anglesey, Phone: 01248-421-894 Hours: T 10am-2pm.

Merthyr Tydfil Nanty Gwenith Street, George Town, Mid Glamorgan, Merthyr, Phone: 01685-722455 Hours: M-Th 2pm-5.30pm; T-Th 6pm-9pm; F 6.30pm-9pm.

Newcastle Emlyn Cardigan Road, Newcastle Emlyn, Dyfed, Phone: 01239-711472 Hours: W 10am-1pm; T, W 6.30pm-9pm

Rhyl 171 Vale Road, Denbighshire, Phone: 01745-331172 Hours: W, Th 10am-3pm; W 7pm-9pm alternate Wednesdays

Swansea Cockett Road, Swansea, West Glamorgan, Phone: 01792-585792 Hours: T 9.30am-3.30pm; W 6.30pm-9pm.

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Apparently, if you use Hugh Wallis Batch Numbers, you get a different result from going directly to the IGI and using the same batch number. After puzzling over this for ages, I realised that with Hugh Wallis, you get a NET result. With the IGI you get a FULL result.

Example:
Used Hugh Wallis batch number to find all Greens born. Got a result of 47.
On another occasion, went direct to IGI, used the same batch number and search criteria - got a result of 60.

The difference was that the IGI results showed deaths of some of the children born, and also entered alternative spellings or names for these children. Useful for killing off, rather than hunting for years only to discover that your quarry died shortly after birth.

Hugh Wallis only gives you Parish Register Extractions - you use the Batch Number given to the Parish Register by the IGI. So, as there are no submitted entries on a Parish Register, you won't get them whichever method you use.

in addition to some old records not surviving to be filmed for inclusion in the IGI, some churches did not allow the LDS to film their records.

All of the above was contributed by another GR Member.

If you don’t know what part of the UK your family came from: click on the IGI and just enter a surname,

Select the ‘Region’ then select ‘British Isles’ then select ‘Country’:

ENGLAND, SCOTLAND, IRELAND, WALES,
CHANNEL ISLANDS or ISLE OF MAN.

Searching for SIBLINGS OF AN ANCESTOR
If you know the Parents’ Names, enter the Father’s & Mother’s Christian and Surnames and search. Also try entering father’s Christian and Surname but only the Mother’s Christian name as some times the records do not have mother’s surname entered.


Don't forget that there are entries Worldwide on here too


N.B. The IGI records are by NO means a complete list of ALL records, so don't be disappointed if you don't find your ancestor on here

.

Dear Theresa

At last a location for parish records!

Thank you very much for the information.

You have put so much work into this.

I have been really amazed at the generous help that most GR members give.

I will be looking for those elusive parish records for my ancestors who
I cannot find some details on.

Thank you again.

Best wishes
x

Lets do the initial search Theresa describes:

Results for: James Trafford, Any Event, 1802 - 1812, Cheshire, England, British Isles
Exact Spelling: Off

International Genealogical Index / British Isles - 3
Select records to download - (50 maximum)
1. James Trafford - International Genealogical Index
Gender: Male Birth: About 1804 Of, Macclesfield, Cheshire, England

2. James Trafford - International Genealogical Index
Gender: Male Birth: About 1804 Of, Macclesfield, Cheshire, England

3. JAS. TRAFFORD - International Genealogical Index
Gender: Male Christening: 21 JUN 1807 Gawsworth, Cheshire, England


Clicking on Jas gives more details, including:

Source Information:
Batch No.: Dates: Source Call No.: Type: Printout Call No.: Type:
P009421 1557 - 1837 0924607 IT 1 Film 6906716 Film
Sheet: 00


If we now click on the Source Call # (0924607 here), and drill down we get:

Title The registers of the parish church of Gawsworth in the county of Chester, 1557-1837
Stmnt.Resp. by Robert Dickinson
Authors Dickinson, Robert (Main Author)
Notes Includes index.
Subjects England, Cheshire, Gawsworth - Church records
Copies
Call Number Location Availability
942.71/G1 V26d FHL BRITISH Large Q Book Available
Format Manuscript (With Film)
Language English
Publication London : Ancient Monuments Society, 1955
Physical viii, 347 p.
Subject Class 942.71/G1 V26

And clicking on the "view film" button in top right we see:

Title The registers of the parish church of Gawsworth in the county of Chester, 1557-1837
Authors Dickinson, Robert (Main Author)
Note Location Film
Also on microfilm. Salt Lake City : Filmed by the Genealogical Society of Utah, 1974. on 1 microfilm reel ; 35 mm. FHL BRITISH Film 924607 Item 1



This is evidently a transcription or extract of the original parish records, so where are those?
Back on the IGI search screen, we can click on "Library" in the blue bar at top, then library catalog, and do a "place search" for "Gawsworth".
Drilling down, we get:

Topic England, Cheshire, Gawsworth - Church records

Titles Bishop's transcripts for Gawsworth, 1586-1868 Church of England. Parish Church of Gawsworth (Cheshire)
[Bishop's Transcripts were the church's back-up records]
The manor of Gawsworth, Cheshire Richards, Raymond
[A book, which includes abstracts from parish registers & other town records including churchwardens' and constables' accounts, poor law records, etc]
Marriages at Gawsworth, 1557-1812 Church of England. Parish Church of Gawsworth (Cheshire)
[In Phillimore's index]
Marriages, 1588-1812, Gawsworth, Cheshire, England Church of England. Parish Church of Gawsworth (Cheshire)
[Forms part of the Norman Collection compiled by Bertram William Tuff Norman]
Parish chest material, 1778-1870 Gawsworth (Cheshire)
[Churchwardens' accounts, 1833-1870 Constables' accounts, 1778-1836 from CRO]
Parish of St. James, Gawsworth, County of Cheshire, U.K. (Macclesfield Hundred), burials, 1557-1997 Taylor, Betty
[Non-circulating extract by NCFHS of Dickenson]
Parish registers for Gawsworth, 1557-1993 Church of England. Parish Church of Gawsworth (Cheshire)
[Click on this]
The registers of the parish church of Gawsworth in the county of Chester, 1557-1837 Dickinson, Robert
[The book extracted to p009421]

(to be continued)

(continuation)

Drilling down, and using the "view film" button again gives:

Title Parish registers for Gawsworth, 1557-1993
Authors Church of England. Parish Church of Gawsworth (Cheshire) (Main Author)

Notes Microfilm of original records in the Cheshire Record Office, Chester, England.
Cheshire Record Office no.: P193/4467/1-8, 13, P193/5583.

Note Location Film
Baptisms, 1557-1706; marriages, 1557-1711; burials, 1557-1692 (baptisms missing years 1667-1673) Baptisms, 1706-1774; marriages, 1711-1754; burials, 1692-1775 Baptisms, burials, 1775-1812; Baptisms, 1813-1885; Marriages, 1754-1837. FHL BRITISH Film 1999985
Marriages, 1837-1958; Burials, 1813-1860. FHL BRITISH Film 2000007 Items 1 - 3
Burials, 1860-1993. FHL BRITISH Film 2147232 Item 4


Similarly, we also get:

Title Bishop's transcripts for Gawsworth, 1586-1868
Authors Church of England. Parish Church of Gawsworth (Cheshire) (Main Author)

Notes Microfilm copy of original record in the Cheshire Record Office, Chester, England.
Cheshire Record Office no.: EDB 92.

Note Location Film
Baptisms, marriages, burials, 1586, [no date], [1590?], 1600, [1620?], 1623, 1630-1631, 1635-1641, 1662-1665, 1667-1669, 1671-1672, 1675-1679, 1681-1688, 1692-1718, 1720-1721, 1719-1720, 1718-1719, 1721-1731, 1729, 1731-1739, 1741-1751, [no date], [1752?], 1754-1766, [1767?], 1768-1791, baptisms, burials, 1792-1812, baptisms, marriages, burials, 1813-1836, baptisms, burials,1837-1839, 1841-1842, baptisms, 1851, 1867-1868, 1867, burials,1867-1868. FHL BRITISH Film 1655672 Item 2


So to view these, we can either check out the Cheshire Record Office or rent a film thru the LDS.
From the blue bar, we can click on "home" and find an FHC in the centre column (for those poor souls who don't live in Wales).



Footnotes - One can enter the mother's name as Margaret - the synonym Peggy is in the IGI's dictionary.
Incidentally, Gawsworth is not in the Cheshire Parish Register Project
http://www.csc.liv.ac.uk/~cprdb/

NB Only a minority of films held by the LDS FHL have been extracted into the IGI

Nudge

n

Thanks Teresa,
I will read this through when I have a bit more time....Im sure I will find this helpful as for the last year I havent been able to suss all the batch nos out.
Kay

Dear Theresa

I followed your advice on this thead.

I eventually located the parents of my great-grandmother x7.

I felt overwhelmed when I saw their details.

I have now got back to about 1765 with my family history search.

Thank you for you thread.

Best wishes.

Glad you are all finding this thread useful. Not my work though!

It has been 'saved'' from OC's original thread which was deleted. So I thought I would put the information back on as so many people found it useful in the past.

Such a shame when really good threads get deleted...and not always by the thread 'owner'.

Sometimes it pays to copy a thread and save it on to your own computer ...just in case.

.

nudge for newcomers.

Please don't automatically assume that Submitted Records are inaccurate.

Many are the result of years of meticulous research by the person concerned, who would be appalled and disgusted to have their work trashed in such a way.

Yes, of course there are those records that are wrong, but as with all research, try to corroborate with alternative information wherever you can.

I would be more inclined to believe Submitted records than Ancestry or Pedigree trees. These can be submitted by anyone and are no better or worse than the trees found on GR in terms of their accuracy. Worse than that, once submitted, they can not be removed or changed.

n

n

n

Many thanks - definitely bookmarking this as a vital instruction book.

n

n

Many thanks for this tip, copy/pasted for future ref.

Chris