Genealogy Chat

Hi Everyone

I'm a beginner at all this, so I don't know if I am posting this 'help needed' in the correct place. I'm trying to trace bio-logical relatives for a friend. On his Birth Certificate under 'informant' it states the name and address of what would have been his Grand Mother. His Grand Mother died before he was born giving birth to his Mother. Does this mean that somebody impersonated her when she went to register the birth by stating 'Mother'. ?
He was born out of wed lock, given away at birth and his Father is not stated on the Birth Certificate.

Any help would be very much appreciated.

Thank you.
Stephanie

I know you were advised to repost from the general board but there are some helpful replies on there

copied and pasted!!



What year was the birth,


Shirley~I,m getting the hang of it Shirley~I,m getting the hang of it Report Edit Delete 4 Nov 2013 16:52
Surely if the informant says mother its his mum not grandmother??

Do you have his mums death cert?


Andysmum Andysmum Report 4 Nov 2013 16:56
"Died giving birth" does not usually mean the mother died at the exact moment of birth.

If she died as a result of giving birth, the death could have been days or even weeks later, so she could have been the informant.

Also, "given away at birth" should not always be taken literally.

Shirley~I,m getting the hang of it Shirley~I,m getting the hang of it Report Edit Delete 4 Nov 2013 17:03
The registrar often went around the maternity wards on a weekly basis and did the registration of new births from his last visit .

Many moons ago a new mum was in the hospital for 14 days after the birth so new births were picked up weekly.

Even when I gave birth in 1957 the stay was 14 days

what help would you like?

You need the names of his "grand parents to check their marriage ?

Did he know his grand parents?

prehaps giving his grand mthers name here could help us help you!

You have 28 posts to your name..............

Sometime Reggie

Its best not to ask!

Your info seems very odd, to say the least.

What is the EXACT wording about the informant?

How does this man know that his grandmother died when she gave birth to her daughter?

And if he already knows this much, he can easily research the family

When my son was born in 1964, his mother was in hospital for 10 days, and the registrar visited the wards to register births and issue certs

Reggie this question is also on gereals board take a look there .....but no answers from poster really

we need more info really

From your post/reply on the general board you say,

In the informant column it "actually says 'Mother', meaning his birth Mothers Mother, who died giving birth"

If it says mother then that means the informant is the Mother of the child.

and not the mother of the mother


See http://www.dixons.clara.co.uk/Certificates/births.htm#COL7

Roy

Added, What was the address on the cert in Column 1, Date and "Place of birth"
There is nothing unusual about the address being the residence of a gran-parents on a birth cert, My oldest sisters birth was registed by my mother and Her address at that time was the same as my gran-parents, Mum and dad lived their for the first 2 years of their marriage, Also people often went to stay with family sometimes for a couple of months whilst giving birth so they would be "Resident" at that address at that time

My mum and aunt were named after their grans - in each case, the appropriate gran rego'ed the birth, and the informant is identified as "grandmother".

Dear All

Thank your for your posts. Firstly I can only reply whilst I'm at my office. I'm unable to have broadband at home. I live too far out in the sticks.

The Birth Certificate states the name of the Mother as Rosalind Cooper ( I have since found out that it was spelt Roslind). Under 'Informant' it states A Cooper (Alice Cooper nee Dalley) who was Roslinds Mother who died in June 1937 the month that Roslind was born. Both Mother and Daughter were living at the same address.

The birth was June 1957. I do have a copy of his Mothers Death Certificate and a copy of his grandparents Marriage Certificate. The death of both his Mother and Grandmother I managed to put together from research but I can't understand how his Grandmother could be the 'informant' if she had already passed away some 19 years earlier.

Thank you all for replying to my post.

You still haven't told us what the 'decsription' of the informant was.....................

Look carefully at Column 7

"Column 7 - Signature, Description and Residence of the Informant"

If, as seems probable, it says MOTHER........that means the mother of the CHILD whose birth was being registered. QED

And I doubt that the info you have bracketed was on the birth cert....

Are you 100% certain that the initial 'A' is not a badly-written 'R'

My thoughts are the same as Reggie, I think it's more likley to be a mistranscription of the letter "R" and "A"

Roy

As your friend is actually said to be trying to trace living relatives, the minutiae of the birth cert does not really have any relevance.

Follow-through from the marriage of the grandparents................

Hi Reggie & Roy

It is definately an 'A' and says Mother underneath, the same address as the birth Mother. I think you are right, it's a mistranscription. How confusing, I thought I had got the death of his grandmother wrong.

I am trying to follow through from the Marriage Certificate of his grandparents to see if his grandfather re-married but John Cooper is such a common name.

Thank you for answering my question.

You have the marriage cert................

How old was John?

What was his father's name?

If you could find John's exact DOB, you could hope that he lived until after 1969, and look for a death.

You could also try accessing the Electoral Roll for the 1957 address.........see if there was anyone else living ther

Hi Reggie

John Cooper was 37 years old when he married Alice Dalley in December 1934.

I havent got the certificate with me but from memory his Father was either John or Joseph. Sorry I can't remember which way around it was. When they got marrried both Fathers were deceased.

What a good idea regarding the Electoral Roll, I hadn't thought of that idea, thank you.

I have also tried to trace Alice's only sibling, a sister Lilian, but drawn a blank there. She married a gentleman called Edward Reed and had two children herself, but I've been unable to trace them.

I won't give up!

Thank you

This is odd...................I find that I've accessed this previously................can't be just coincidence

1911 census


Person: DALLEY, Alice Address: 49 Gibson Street Harpurhey Manchester

DALLEY, John Head Married M 26 1885 Cloth Stamper Lanc Manchester VIEW
DALLEY, Carrie Wife Married5 years F 26 1885 Leeds Yorkshire VIEW
DALLEY, Alice Daughter Single F 4 1907 Lanc Manchester

Lancashire Birth indexes for the years: 1907
Surname Forename(s) Sub-District Registers At Mother's Maiden Name Reference
DALLEY Alice Blackley Manchester STONES BLA/48/64

Lancashire Birth indexes for the years: 1915
Surname Forename(s) Sub-District Registers At Mother's Maiden Name Reference
DALLEY Lilian Blackley Manchester BLA/62/15

Stephanie........................

Why didn't you use your original request?

http://www.genesreunited.co.uk/boards/board/living_relatives/thread/1332269

FMP's system is SO useful for highlighting this sort of thing..........................