Genealogy Chat

Patchem Since no one was finding an Ina marrying an Adams, Shirley enquired whether the name might be Ena (and now maybe Ada), I did the same re Ida ...

also note that there is no death for the name Ina Adams up to 2005 that resembles the details here at all

Winifred Ina born 1904 died 1994 Sussex
Charlotte Ina L born 1906 died 1997 Hertfordshire
Ina Irene born 1915 died 1992 Dorset
Ina Winifred born 1915 died 1994 Yorkshire

and that's the lot.

Geraldine has the info that is needed to sort this marriage out (the names of her mum's brother(s) and sister(s) to find their mother's surname)

so until then ................


but in any case as the story goes, if it is true, Josephine Joyce was not a child of that couple, but I guess the only way to find whether that is true is to find who the couple was

Ina could be short for Georgina. I had an in-law who was named Georgina and was called Ina by her family.

I've not found any marriages for a John Adams to a Georgina but there are many deaths for a Georgina Adams from 1950s to 1980s. It would help if we knew what part of the country the family was from.

We cannot be sure what Joyce's name at birth was. If the story is true, and she was illegitimate, the birth would have been registered under the mother's name and not Adams. Also, she could have been registered with different first names.

If she was born in India, she must have been brought/sent back to England. Geraldine, do you know the name of the brother who was her supposed father? We may be able to find him coming back to England.

I am currently looking at all the Joyces coming into the country from India but, as I said, her name then might not have been Joyce.

'Josephine Joyce' remember! :-)

If Geraldine would just follow up with some of the information requested it could help at least start to sort the family out .............

To Sylvia
Mother was born 10.06.1932. As far as I know the only person who was in the army at the time was her uncle (her dads brother) He met a English girl out therein India and family rumours suggested they had a child out of wedlock and was given to whom became her mother and father as they had recently married.

Hope you can help :-)

Hi
I have asked my cousin if she has any family names dates etc that can help. Wish I had the birth certificate. :-( :-(

Geraldine,

Was you grandmother Ina, and when and where did she live and die, please?

Hi
Found out that my granparents both died in Livingston Scotland and possible born in Bathgateor Whitburn Scotland. My grandad was a miner all his life and his father before him. The only brother names I have is James and Joseph but no one knows the name of the one who was in the army. These names have been passed down the family. My mother had brothers James, John and Joseph and sisters Elizabeth and Marion. She also had a cousin called Ina Boyle and Hughie Boyle who also came from Bathgate. Also my cousin thinks that the brother who was in the army may have been Grandmothers brother not as I thought my grandfathers. Now trying to find grandmothers maiden name. Thanks for help so far.

Geraldine.

But if the brother had an illegitimate daughter born abroad surely she would have been reg in her mums surname not Adams

For Scottish BMDS i am afraid you need Scotlands People website which is pay to view

She was born in SCOTLAND !!

used 1 unit to view the record

1932 ADAMS JOSEPHINE JOYCE F WHITBURN /WEST LOTHIAN 673/01 0066

you will have to buy units to view the info reasonable though at 30 for about £7

You cant view the cert though but you can order it through the site at £10

It will give you who her parents were and you can then look at that part of the family

and many foreheads are smacked :-D Well done!

I don't have any usable credits at SP but a search for marriages of
John Adams to
*ina
1925 to 1932
finds 5 marriages
(1928 to 1932 finds 2 marriages ...)

by elimination, one was in West Lothian in 1929

*ina in case the name was Georgina etc.

no marriages for John Adams to 'Ina' in Scotland

by more elimination, the name is *hina ... oh ha, Josephina? Yes.

a John Adams married a Josephina in West Lothian in 1929. Sounds good ...

no death for a Josephina Adams in England, but she might have gone by just Josephine.

You can do a lot by elimination w/o credits once you know what you're looking for. :-)

Josephina's name began with Mc ... Mc M ... there are two McM mothers' surnames in Adams births in England after 1929 - McMonagle and McManus ... but the surname in that marriage isn't one of them ... but it is Mc Ma ... Mc Mac, that's rather odd ...

well actually it's just Mc or just Mac, I guess the system indexes it both ways ... and it's macd ... macde ... ? Ah yes. >>>> Josephina MacDermott.

>>>> A Josephine McDERMOTT or MacDermott was born in 1904 ...

of course there's no guarantee at all that this is our couple, it's just that it's a John Adams marrying a *ina in West Lothian 3 years before the birth of Josephine Joyce ... Hopefully Geraldine will buy the credits to order her mother's birth certificate and put us all out of our misery!

>>>> there were 3 ADAMS-McDERMOTT births in Northumberland Central reg dist in the 1940s, all male ... and there is no marriage in England to match.

Geraldine, do your uncles' names all begin with J too by any chance? could this possibly be the (untimely) death of one of them?

Name: JOHN VINCENT ADAMS
Birth Date: 25 Jun 1944
Date of Registration: Aug 2005
Age at Death: 61
Registration District: Sheffield
Inferred County: Yorkshire

If only Geraldine would drop one more hint ...


Oh, smack my own forehead!!! I missed Geraldine's post above.

The names of the brothers she gave all starting with J are indeed the names that have mother McDermott and that death of >>> John Vincent Adams is one of them. He married in Sheffield in 1966. I see four likely births to that marriage ... but even those names are too common to trace easily ...

I have looked for marriages for the other two to no avail so far.

Elizabeth and Marion must have been born in Scotland too?

There are three McDermott households in Livingstone West Lothian in 1901

headed by

Philip and Bridget
Michael and Bridget
Joseph and Bridget

so Geraldine one way or the other I'm going to guess that your great-grandmother was a Bridget! :-D


No 11 Seafield Rows, Livingstone
Joseph Mcdermott 36 born Ireland general labourer
Bridget Mcdermott 29 born Ireland
Thomas Mcdermott 1

No 88 Seafield Rows, Livingstone
Philip Mcdermott 60 born Ireland general labourer
Bridget Mcdermott 40 born Ireland
Philip Mcdermott 23
Mary Mcdermott 19
John Mcdermott 15
Charles Mcdermott 11
Kate Mcdermott 8
Bridget Mcdermott 5
Rose Ann Mcdermott 4
Neil Gallacher 28

Blackburn, Livingstone
Michael Mcdermott 43 born Ireland coal mine hewer
Bridget Mcdermott 38 born Livingstone, Linlithgowshire (West Lothian)
Maggie Mcdermott 15
Nellie Mcdermott 13
James Mcdermott 11
William Mcdermott 9
Fanny Mcdermott 7
Katie Mcdermott 5
Michael Mcdermott 1


The eldest child in each family was born in Scotland.
Any of those couples could have had another child 3 years after the census.

But you still need, first, your mum's birth certificate, and then if her mother was indeed Josephine/a McDermott, her birth certificate (which seems to be 1904).

You can search the 1911 census at Scotlands People as well and there is an 8-yr-old Josephine in Livingston but her surname doesn't seem to be McDermott ... but then the search only finds one McDermott in Livingston ... there is a 3-yr-old Josephine McDermott somewhere in West Lothian. I don't know how reliable SP's transcriptions of that census are.

Nudged up for Geraldine :-D

and another nudge ;-)

as I understand it, unless geraldine has added this thread to her 'watched threads', adding messages to it will not get the message to her ... maybe a PM is in order since some response would certainly be nice :-)

Have sent a PM as Geraldine hasnt responded

I am not used to the message notifications here yet and I have just seen I have two messages from Geraldine, I think they are not too old! from this evening not long ago.

She has sent me some information about her mother's siblings with thanks for the help so far.

Geraldine do post back here in the thread too so everyone knows you are reading!

I will take a look at the info you sent a little later - if anybody else is looking do mention it here.

Births of sisters Marion and Elizabeth??

1937 ADAMS ELIZABETH F WHITBURN /WEST LOTHIAN 673/01 0115

1934 ADAMS MARION F WHITBURN /WEST LOTHIAN 673/01 0041

the birth details of living persons really should NOT be put on the public board!!!!!!

This is precisely why I asked Geraldine to send the information to someone privately ............