Genealogy Chat

Hmm.. It's not looking good.. I think I will order Edwin's birth certificate but I'm not sure how much it will tell me.. I only think it is William Howard born 1803 because of the connection to Isaac.. Apart from that, all I have is engineer! Not much to go on :-(

mgnv .................



oops!!!


you're right.


Although I think they did use S for most of the others.


But if that is so, then father William is a figment in the sense of being her husband :-(

oh dear!


My posting of yesterday, Feb 18 20:17, did not post properly, and I did not check it at the time.


This is what I was referring to, with the census information showing in full ...........


1871 Census

Name: Esther H S Wells
Age: 9
Estimated birth year: abt 1862
Relation: Daughter
Father's name: Mosses Wells
Mother's name: Sarah Wells
Gender: Female
Where born: In Bost
Civil Parish: Church Lawton
Ecclesiastical parish: Church Lawton
County/Island: Cheshire
Country: England
Registration district: Congleton
Sub-registration district: Sandbach
ED, institution, or vessel: 5
Household schedule number: 149
Piece: 3706
Folio: 107
Page Number: 31

Mosses Wells 32 b.ca 1839, Bidford, Warwickshire, Labourer
Sarah Wells 27 b.ca 1844, Allostock, Cheshire
Esther H S Wells 9
Harriett Wells 7
Mary J Wells 5
Eliza Wells 2
Edwin Lunt 15 Brother-in-Law

Address:- Stationary Boat Cabins, Suttons Basin



Marriage of Mos(s)es and Sarah? ..................


Marriages Jun 1862 (>99%)

Lunt Sarah Wolverhampton 6b 578
Wells Moses Wolverhampton 6b 578

Sylvia - U is the first letter of unmarried.

The sarah Wells in the 1881 Census that I posted ................ is NOT yours.



I found Esther in 1871 .............

1871 Census

Name: Esther H S Wells
Age: 9
Estimated birth year: abt 1862
Relation: Daughter
Father's name: Mosses Wells
Mother's name: Sarah Wells
Gender: Female
Where born: In Bost 99%)

Lunt Sarah Wolverhampton 6b 578
Wells Moses Wolverhampton 6b 578

:-S The Howards are a nightmare!!

I can't find a marriage for Sarah Ann.

I tried to find her in a later census, but without success .... there is a Sarah Ann Wells in the 1881 Census, who is the Master of a Barge .................... but she says she was born in Knutsford



Report issue

Name: Sarah Wells
Age: 39
Estimated birth year: abt 1842
Relationship to Head: Head
Gender: Female
Where born: Knutsford, Cheshire, England
Civil Parish: Penkridge
County/Island: Staffordshire
Country: England
Street address: Penkridge Wharf " Plymouth "
Marital Status: Married

Occupation: Master (Barge)
Registration district: Cannock
Sub registration district: Penkridge
ED, institution, or vessel: 4

Piece: 2780
Folio: 54
Page Number: 16

Sarah Wells 39 Married
Esther Wells 19 b.ca 1862, Cosgrove, Northamptonshire
Moses Wells 6 b.ca 1875, Red Bull, Cheshire
Ellen Wells 3 b.ca 1878, Runcorn, Cheshire




????? a red herring :-)

That's an interesting idea.. I did wonder if he existed.. although there is a constant mention of him being an engineer. Isaac had two sisters that I could find.. Mary and Betsy but I have found this family really difficult to trace; particularly the women. I couldn't find a record of Sarah marrying a man with the surname Wells / Wills. It's proving difficult!

well, I guess William could be a mariner, eg fisherman, and out on the boat(s) at census time in 1841


The assumption with Ann saying that she is a widow on the 1851 could be that William died before that census ........

........... but we don't actually know what her status was on the 1841 as that detail is not shown on that census



I do wonder whether she was in fact NOT married??



Could all the children be illegitimate, but told that their father was called William?



Could Isaac actually be Ann's brother?

Any logical suggestions why William might not appear on any censuses? I've taken to tracing his children and his siblings in the hope that their marriages might shed some light.. not that they have so far!

Deaths Jun 1854 (>99%)
Howard Ann W Derby 8b 263
Howard Ann W Derby 8b 257

Deaths Jun 1855 (>99%)
Howard Ann W Derby 8b 299

Deaths Sep 1857 (>99%)
Howard Ann W Derby 8b 278


Deaths Mar 1861 (>99%)
HOWARD Ann W Derby 8b 339


Not a lot of help, as, of course, they pre-date the inclusion on the index of the age at death.

Unfortunately, LancsBMD haven't got round to transcribing Liverpool deaths for the time-scale

Can anyone find a record for Sarah Ann marrying and becoming Sarah Ann Wells? I can't seem to find anything?

Yes they are the census records that I have found.. sorry it has taken me a while to reply! As you can see, I just can't find William on any of these records..
I wondered if Ann might have died between 1851 & 1861 and that is why the family is suddenly split up.

Name: Isaac Howard
Event Type: Christening
Event Date: 15 Apr 1810
Event Place: All Saints, Runcorn, Cheshire, England
Gender: Male
Birth Date: 26 Mar 1810
Father's Name: John Howard
Mother's Name: Ann


Name: William Howard
Event Type: Christening
Event Date: 05 Mar 1805
Event Place: All Saints, Runcorn, Cheshire, England
Gender: Male
Birth Date: 20 Mar 1803
Father's Name: John Howard
Mother's Name: Ann

Isaac's marriage - unfortunately too early to be of any use

Name: Isaac Howard
Spouse's Name: Mary Nield
Event Date: 1835
Event Place: Runcorn Parish, Chester Co.
Indexing Project (Batch) Number: M75104-4 ,

For our info, the 1861 referred to above

1861 England, Wales & Scotland Census Transcription
6, Marshall Street, Toxteth Park, West Derby, Lancashire, England


First name(s) Last name Relationship Marital status Gender Age Birth year Occupation Birth place
Isaac Haward Head Married Male 50 1811 Mariner Chester, Cheshire, England Transcription
Mary Haward Wife Married Female 49 1812 - Chester, Cheshire, England Transcription
Louisa Haward Daughter Unmarried Female 16 1845 Scholar Chester, Cheshire, England Transcription
William Haward Son - Male 13 1848 Scholar Chester, Cheshire, England Transcription
George Haward Son - Male 8 1853 Scholar Cheshire, England Transcription
Elizabeth Jones Daughter Married Female 24 1837 Mariners Wife Cheshire, England Transcription
Mary Elizth Jones Granddaughter - Female 5 1856 Scholar Ellesmere, Cheshire, England Transcription
Sarah Ann Wells Niece Married Female 21 1840 Marines Wife Ellesmere, Cheshire, England Transcription
Edwin Howard Nephew Unmarried Male 14 1847 Mariner Chester, Cheshire, England

Is this the same family in 1841 please?

Ann Howard
Age: 35
Estimated birth year: abt 1806
Gender: Female
Where born: Cheshire, England
Civil Parish: Runcorn
Hundred: Bucklow
County/Island: Cheshire
Country: England
Street address:

Occupation:

View image
Registration district: Runcorn
Sub-registration district: Runcorn
Neighbors: View others on page
Piece: 95
Book: 20
Folio: 7
Page Number: 8
Household Members:
Name Age
Ann Howard 35
William Howard 7
John Howard 5
Sarah Howard 2

FMP's version of 1851

1851 England, Wales & Scotland Census Transcription
Hughes Street 3 Court, Toxteth Park Extra Parochial, West Derby, Lancashire, England

First name(s) Last name Relationship Marital status Gender Age Birth year Occupation Birth place
Ann Howard Head Widow Female 52 1799 - Northwich, Cheshire, England Transcription
William Howard Son - Male 15 1836 Ap Carpenter Runcorn, Cheshire, England Transcription
Sarah T Howard Daughter - Female 9 1842 Scholar Runcorn, Cheshire, England Transcription
John Howard Son - Male 13 1838 Scholar Liverpool, Lancashire, England Transcription
James Howard Son - Male 8 1843 Scholar Runcorn, Cheshire, England Transcription
Edwin Howard Son Unmarried Male 5 1846 Scholar Liverpool, Lancashire, England

Sarah's second initial is not a 'T' when one looks at the image

Did any of the children born after 1837 have their births registered?

Please post the 1841 for our info

I traced Isaac to see if I could find anything on William.. Born in Runcorn 1810.. That's how I came to believe William was born in Runcorn in 1803 to a john Howard and an Ann, possibly shaw, according to some trees but some also contradict this