Genealogy Chat

Hi
Have been advised to ask on here about a family from Stanton harcourt in Oxfordshire....Jane combe 1791
Regards Chrissy

For our reference - presumably this is her?

What do you want to know about the family, Chrissy?
Please tell us everything you know already, to avoid researching info you already have.

Jane Coombs

in the 1841 England Census
Name: Jane Coombs
Age: 50
Estimated Birth Year: abt 1791
Gender: Female
Where born: Oxfordshire, England
Civil Parish: Stanton Harcourt
Hundred: Wootton
County/Island: Oxfordshire
Country: England
Registration district: Witney
Sub-registration district: Ensham
Neighbors: View others on page
Piece: 890
Book: 13
Folio: 19
Page Number: 11
Household Members:
Name Age
Jane Coombs 50
William Coombs 20
Mary Coombs 15
Chas Coombs 10
Thos Coombs 15

The son William:


William Coombs
in the 1861 England Census

Name: William Coombs
Age: 40
Estimated Birth Year: 1821
Relation: Head
Gender: Male
Where born: Stanton Harcourt
Civil Parish: Stanton Harcourt
County/Island: Oxfordshire
Country: England

Registration district: Witney
Sub-registration district: Ensham
ED, institution, or vessel: 9b
Neighbors: View others on page
Household schedule number: 56
Piece: 904
Folio: 124
Page Number: 12
Household Members:
Name Age
William Coombs 40
Mary Ann Coombs 37 - sister
Thomas Coombs 35 - brother

any one of these deaths could be hers:

Deaths Jun 1849 (>99%)
Coombs Jane Witney 16 101

Deaths Jun 1858 (>99%)
COOMBS Jane Witney 3a 379

Deaths Mar 1861 (>99%)
Coombs Jane Witney 3a 412

Deaths Dec 1861 (>99%)
Coombs Jane Witney 3a 372

Her children Thomas and Mary Ann never married - both single in 1901:

Mary A Coombs
in the 1901 England Census


Name: Mary A Coombs
Age: 77
Estimated Birth Year: abt 1824
Relation to Head: Sister
Gender: Female
Birth Place: Stanton Harcourt, Oxfordshire, England
Civil Parish: Stanton Harcourt
Ecclesiastical parish: St Michael
Town: Sutton
County/Island: Oxfordshire
Country: England
Street address:
View image
Registration district: Witney
Sub-registration district: Eynsham
ED, institution, or vessel: 10
Neighbors: View others on page
Piece: 1393
Folio: 106
Page Number: 6
Household schedule number: 39
Household Members:
Name Age
Thomas Coombs 74
Mary A Coombs 77

Hi
Thankyou for your response.have info from 1851 census.... now 1841 census.. trying to find out who was Alfreds father/mother as not clear if it was william coombs 1821.
what his Mothers maiden name was... he lived with his grandmother Jane Coombs
thank you very much
Regards Chrissy

Is this the Alfred you're talking about??

1851 Census

Name: Jane Combs
Age: 60
Estimated Birth Year: abt 1791
Relation: Head
Gender: Female
Where born: Southleigh, Oxfordshire, England
Civil Parish: Stanton Harcourt
Phillimore Ecclesiastical Parish Maps:
View related Ecclesiastical Parish
County/Island: Oxfordshire
Country: England

Registration district: Witney
Sub-registration district: Ensham
ED, institution, or vessel: 5b

Household schedule number: 24
Piece: 1731
Folio: 169
Page Number: 6

Jane Combs 60 Widow, Pauper, formerly Nurse
William Combs 30 b.ca 1821, Southleigh, Oxfordshire, Son, Ag Lab
Mary Ann Combs 28 b.ca 1823, Stanton Harcourt, Daughter, Ag Lab
Thomas Combs 26 b.ca 1825, Stanton Harcourt, Son, Ag Lab
Sarah Combs 5 b.ca 1846, Stanton Harcourt, Granddaughter, Scholar
Alfred Combs 4 b.ca 1847, Stanton Harcourt, Grandson

The best way to find out is, of course, to buy the birth certificate ........ which costs £9.25 including postage (worldwide)


from www.freebmd.org.uk

One of these 2 should be the birth registration of Sarah, Witney is the Registration District that includes Stanton Harcourt ..........


Births Jun 1845 (>99%)

COOMBS Sarah Witney 16 13


Births Sep 1845 (>99%)

Coombs Sarah Witney 16 112



and Alfred's ........

Births Mar 1847 (>99%)

COOMBS Alfred Witney 16 140



my actual gut feeling is that both Sarah and Alfred are Mary Ann's illegitimate children.


Both William and Thomas say they are Unmarried ....... if they had been married and these were their children, it would say Wid


It is usual for the child of a daughter to be raised in her parents household, not in the household of the father's parents.

A Public Family Tree on ancestry hints at Sarah and Alfred being mary Ann's children, with the father named as John Trinder ............... but there is NO proof given for this!




Sarah Coombes apparently married Thomas Harris, June quart 1871.

I cannot find a baptism for either Alfred or Sarah .........


.......... you need to buy his birth certificate to be sure.

I have the transcribed Stanton Harcourt P/Rs on fiche

Baptisms
20 July 1845-Sarah Coombes d Marianne illigi servant born 1st June
09 May 1847-Alfred Coombes s Marianne illigit servant born Feb 14

No father's name

There is also this marriage

15 April 1871 {Stanton Harcourt}
Thomas HARRIS fa bach lab otp s John lab
Sarah COOMBS fa sp servant otp d John lab
Wit=Richard Calcutt/Mary Fitchett

Wonderful news ....all info gratefully recieved ... It is my Alfred
thank you
p.s.

Still would love to know Janes maiden name... still tried to get Alfreds birth certifcate but had dates wrong .will try again thanks.
why does it say
coombes d marianne with sarah and Alfreds Baptisms
thank you for all you efforts.
regards Chrissy

It says Marianne because, presumably, Jane's daughter Mary Anne was the mother of Sarah and Alfred.

They're listed as Jane's grandchildren in the 1851 census posted earlier by Sylvia.

"d" means "daughter of", "s" means "son of".

And Coombes was the surname of the child.

Marianne is a version of Mary Ann(e), and vice versa


Remember our ancestors were usually illiterate, and did not know how others might spell their name(s) nor could they check, and the vicar who made the entry in the Parish Register probably used the spelling that he knew for the name "Mary Ann"



so this is what I suggested was the case, that Sarah and Alfred were the illegitimate children of Mary Ann.

The chances of finding the name of the father(s) are pretty slim .............. unless there is a family bible with the name written in it, or a letter. Sometimes, the vicar would make a note beside a baptism entry as to the putative father, but you would have to see the original Register to see if that was the case.

Occasionally you will find a Bastardy Order or Bond, where the putative father has been ordered to support mother and / or child(ren)


It is unlikely that the father's name will be on the Birth Certificate ............ he had to either be there or provide a letter stating that he was the father, when it was a case of not being married to the mother.

Have re read the posts and think this may be right ?

{Various spelling of Coombes}

From the transcriptions of the South Leigh Oxfordshire P/Rs
Marriage-14 March 1820
John COOMS Stanton Harcourt bach
Jane CONEY sp otp
Wit=William Cooms/Sophia Coxeter

Bapt
12 Dec 1791-Jane Conney d Thomas & Sarah-born 22 Nov

13 Aug 1820-William Coombs s John & Jane

From the Stanton Harcourt Oxfordshire transcriptions

Bpt
21 April 1822-Mary Ann d John & Jane Coombes
30 May 1824-Thomas s
26 Mar 1826-John s

Buriels
22 Dec 1827-John Coombes 31
02 May 1835-John Coombes 9
16 Mar 1861-Jane Coombes 69
14 Nov 1868-William Coombes 48
24 Sept 1904-Thomas Coombes 77 Union Workhouse
19 July 1905-Mary Ann Coombes 80 Union Workhouse

Hi Christine

Found this on the Ducklington Oxfordshire transcripts-is it your Alfred ?

Marriage-10 October 1868
Alfred COOMBS fa bach of Hardwick lab s John
Ellen CARPENTER under age sp of Hardwick d John
Wit#Thomas ? {looks like Hawtin}/Sarah Coombs

There are also baptisms for his children if you would like them :-)

There is not a baptism at Stanton Harcourt for a John Coombs but there is this one at Duckington
18 July 1790-John Cooms s John & Elizabeth of Hardwick

This does not tally with his age at buriel but they may have been unsure

Hi Elizebeth K
Have all info about Alfred /Ellen plus certificates.etc its earlier info that is really interesting thankyou...getting there many thanks for all help
Christine

Hi & thank you so much......would now like to know about Janes parents ...parents ....Janes mum /Dad Thomas & Sarah Coney..Think they were from Southliegh Oxon.
Her Husband's, parents, John & Elizebeth Cooms both sets circa 1760's ,Think they were from Ducklington ..Oxon ..However family history always stated that family came from cornwall Tin/Copper mines..this is what I would really like to find out
many thanks
Chrissy

Hi Christine

I will have a look and see what I can find :-)