Genealogy Chat

Gins he says he's born Manchester but actually Courland .RUssia and came to GB very young

The welsh newspaper report about our George Jacob F explains something about his naturalisation papers .

the copy we have is from 1916 ..+ includes a photo + town + country of birth
I wondered why he didn't register at start of WW1

now I know that he did but the document didn't have enough detail to prove to Welsh police that he WAS Russian


the article shows that ;

100 years ago 15th Dec 1915

Our greatgrandfather was taken to court ... charged on 6th nov 1915

with being an alien ......in a prohibited area (merthyr High St) .....
...without a certificate of nationality .!


He had actually registered as an alien in Cardiff aug 11th 1914 ...

he was given 4 days to produce evidence but was seen on 24th Nov + still hadn't got proof .

It didn't help that his 1st act on arrival in Merthyr was to go to the police station and ask if there were any munitions factory near by .

It all worked out in end charges were dropped ...but it probably explains why there is so much detail on his 1916 document + a photo

Article also confiirms that he'd lived in UK 24 years + was a debt collector ..

YEs CHRIS HE'S OUR MAN

There's also article about him selling postcards of a questionable nature as he'd done in scotland .in 1906

We knew he was a salesman though
.didn't know he sold false teeth too ...

Riga was the port he left from .

he must have got a better more official certificate after this court case

the one we have was issued May 1916

Thanks Gins + Chris

there are lots of threads on this family ; this one was supposed to be a general discussion about Naturalisation documents + how to find them

but of course i give examples from my family

Alisoun is my sister .

Seems to be quite a few 'Threads' relating, looking at names on google (some shared by Alisoun)

Sounds confusing!.


http://www.findagrave.com/

http://jewishdata.com/jewish_genealogy_search/Fellman/-

(above also has some)

Chris :)


(below relates to your George Jacob one, I think!)

http://newspapers.library.wales/view/4001144/4001152/68/


(from below)

http://newspapers.library.wales/view/4001144/4001152/68/

Brigid

The 'David' on the US Draft & Naturalization Record record is from Manchester and you say 'your' David is from Russia

Is that right?

safc thanks so much ..the draft registration is also a fascinating document with the physical description +

the 1917 address may help with links to family members

Someone sent me David Fellman's Petition for Naturalisation; he is still a watchmaker so it definitely correlates with my David

doB is 20th oct 1886 Manchester the latvian date is 6/11/1886 but that could be baptism date or registration date +
the date of arrival in US from Liverpool corresponds with 1905 us immigration manifest of our 18 year old watchmaker is going to stay illegible but in Tupperlake

quite amused that he had to sign up that he is not a disbeliever or a polygamist + will not pledge allegiance to foreign prince or sovereignty particularly King George V

Look forward to obtaining more such documents

He's married to sadie gives her birth date too + a witness is a Lester Froelich maybe her brother

naturaizations records

http://italiangen.org/records-search/naturalizations.php

1901 England, Wales & Scotland Census Transcription
36, Price Street, Birkenhead, Cheshire, England

Learn more
Print transcription View image
Household Members
First name(s) Last name Relationship Marital status Gender Age Birth year Occupation Birth place
Samuel L Fellman Head Married Male 46 1855 Drapers Traveller Russia
Transcription
Jane Fellman Wife Married Female 36 1865 - Russia
Transcription
May Fellman Daughter Single Female 20 1881 Dressmaker Russia
Transcription
Bessie Fellman Daughter Single Female 18 1883 Dressmaker Russia
Transcription
Sarah Fellman Daughter Single Female 16 1885 Housemaid Russia
Transcription
David Fellman Son Single Male 14 1887 Watch Maker Russia
Transcription
Tilly Fellman Daughter Single Female 10 1891 - Russia
Transcription
Gertrude Fellman Daughter Single Female 8 1893 - Manchester, Lancashire, England
Transcription
Esther Fellman Daughter Single Female 4 1897 - Manchester, Lancashire, England

ww1 draft registration card

https://familysearch.org/ark:/61903/1:1:KZZQ-6BD

david fellman married 1920 to sadie froelick


http://italiangen.org/records-search/grooms.php

David's at 36 price st with father Samuel fellman

step mother jane

and 6 sisters .

I think most of the family stayed around New York so that data base would be most fruitful ..over here i prefer asking initial questions by telephone

Susie's right ;it may be worth paying for professional research from archives if they can do a job lot .

The Cheshire Records office once found an affiliation order for me .I'd never have known how to look .

The US do not have a centralised system such as the GRO. Each State holds its own records

The information regarding the children is from a US census, found at Ancestry

I am not seeing young David in Birkenhead in 1901?

thanks
Sue I don't know what is the Usa equivalent of GRO will try + find out

Gins : my US info for David is only from people on websites ; there may be another David Fellman

mine was born or baptised in Russian latvian 6/11/ 1886

father leizer-mendel Fellman later known as Samuel

My David went to school in Manchester in 1893
by 1901 he was a14 yr old watchmaker in Birkenhead

left liverpool aged 18 28/12/1904 arrived jan 1905 going to Tupperlake where an elder sister lived.

I was told that he married Sadie froelich b chechoslaovakiain 1920 +

he naturalised 1926 but had no children .

what is your source with the childrens names ??
I was told there were 2 censuses for 1940
so there probably are 2 David Fellman's

one he's aged 52 jeweller born England

another he's 55 a a machinist living with nephew jack gossman + his mother ida gossman

i'd like to see the transcriptions ; I think it may have been easier to say born in england + stick to that story


Thanks for suggestio n chris ho ; I have spent some time on google .looks like need subs to sites to access info.

I don't know if the USA is the same, but I recently contacted the Australian equivalent of our GRO, and paid for copies of all the paperwork for an ancestor of ours. It was brilliant - all handwritten references and applications and loads of detail re dates, addresses and occupation that we hadn't previously known.

May be worth looking into?

Sue

Is David the son of Samuel, I'm a little confused



Name:David Fellman <<Watchmaker

Birth Date:20 Oct 1886

Birth Place:England (Manchester)<<<<<<<<<<

Arrival Year:1905

Naturalization Record Type:Petition for Naturalization

Event Date:10 Sep 1926

Event Place:New York, USA

Court:Southern District, New York

Spouse's Name:Sadie
----------------------------------------------------


Name:David Fellman <<<Tailor

Birth Date:abt 1886

Birth Place:Russia <<<<<<<<<<<<

Age:39

Gender:Male

Residence Place:New York, New York

Relationship:Head

Colour or Race:White

Number of Years in US:19

Assembly District:09

House Number:320
Line Number:14
Page Number:22

Household Members:


David Fellman 39
Sadie Fellman 36
David Fellman 17
Sara Fellman 14
Marie Andrews 27
Oscar Williams 24

--------------------------------------------


Name:David Fellman

Birth Date:20 Oct 1886

Birth Place:Manchester, England

Residence:Kings, New York, USA

Race:White



Are these two different people?

Always worth a look on google, see if they are online (might be that you need to subscribe somewhere)

Chris :)

Thanks Chis Ho

the info for the girls is on there too .but not their natralisations

also looking for naturalisation of their sister in Scotland Rebecca Bloch b1872

+ nathan fellman b1868 who may or not be related came to GB 3rd jan 1897 + has membership number 133 of Manchester naturalization society 1896-1909

i don't know what the above means .or how to get these documents

http://www.rootschat.com/forum/index.php?topic=708494.27

(reference to David 1926 on above)

Chris :)

looking for naturalisation papers for :

samuel (lazarus -Mendel )Fellman b1850 russia
+ his 2nd wife (Jane )Sheina Landmann bRussia approx 1860

+ his russian born daughters daughters
May Ginsberg b1880
Bessie Ness b.russia 1882

Tilly (Kayha) Jampolsky

their brother David was born 1886, his naturalisation was 10 sep 1926 southern district 662 3rd av brooklyn I've not seen the docu but apparently it erroneosly says born GB

Thank you for the offer to look up : detective + for your explanation

Also Gertrude Fellman b1892 don't know if she married
Living NY 1910