Genealogy Chat

I am stuck solid !!!! I have a mega problem with my family tree. My great grand parents had four children. Herbert William F Pratt born 1899-1899, Then Jack Pratt born 1901, and then Kathleen Mary Pratt born in 1905, all born in Walsall, Staffs. on the 1901 census, there were no children, but on the 1911 census it states 4 children born, 2 died. I cannot find the other child. I know sometime after Kathleen was born in 1905 my great grandparents moved to Sparkhill, in B`ham. I have tried looking & matching dates within the Walsall area & again for Birmingham, but I am getting no where at all. Please can someone advise me where to try next. I have been trying to sort this out now for over two years and it is now becoming a real problem for me. Thanks Chris :-(

just for ref

1911 England, Wales & Scotland Census Transcription
815 Stratford Road Sparkhill Birmingham, Yardley, Warwickshire, England

John Hubert Pratt Head Married Male Grocer 38 1873 Heddon Yorkshire
Edith Lizzie Pratt Wife Married Female - 33 1878 Birmingham
Kathleen Mary Pratt Daughter - Female - 5 1906 Walsall Staffs
Jack Pratt Son - Male - 9 1902 Walsall Staffs

http://www.genesreunited.co.uk/boards/board/genealogy_chat/thread/1338027

(would that be the 1911 on above)

Chris :)


Reggie Report 3 Mar 2014 14:38

1911 census

Person: PRATT, Kathleen Mary Address: 815 Stratford Road Sparkhill Birmingham
PRATT, John Hubert Head Married M 38 1873 Grocer Heddon Yorkshire VIEW
PRATT, Edith Lizzie Wife Married13 years F 33 1878 Birmingham VIEW
PRATT, Kathleen Mary Daughter F 5 1906 Walsall Staffs VIEW
PRATT, Jack Son M 9 1902 Walsall Staffs

looking at Freebmd for Walsall no first name...possibly Herbert had a twin? (EDIT scrub that born different qtrs)


Surname First name(s) Age District Vol Page
Deaths Sep 1899 (>99%)
Pratt Herbert William F 0 Walsall 6b 471
Deaths Dec 1899 (>99%)
Pratt James Henry 0 Walsall 6b 471




Deaths Sep 1901 (>99%)
Pratt Joseph 1 Walsall 6b 435

Deaths Mar 1903 (>99%)

PRATT Margaret Ann 2 Walsall 6b 463

Do you know either John or Edith's parent's names? It might narrow down the search for the missing child if they named him or her after the child's grandparents.

I'd be inclined to look for a birth between 1897 and 1899 as a lot of couples then had a child fairly quickly after marrying.

Kath. x

What was Edith's maiden name? Sometimes the local registry sites give that against the births

For Staffordshire
http://www.staffordshirebmd.org.uk/cgi/birthind.cgi?county=staffordshire

Warwickshire isn't quite so good
https://www.warwickshire.gov.uk/indexes/birthind.nsf/Search?OpenForm

How about this birth and death (given John Hubert's first name and the fact that the marriage was in West Bromwich - if his marriage is in the name John Herbert instead of John Hubert married to Edith Lizzie Eden in 1897) - (you would have to buy the birth certificate to be certain):-

First name(s) JOHN EDWARD
Last name PRATT
Birth year 1898
Birth quarter 2
Registration month -
Mother's last name -
District WEST BROMWICH
County Staffordshire
Country England
Volume 6B
Page 819

and death:-

First name(s) JOHN EDWARD
Last name PRATT
Gender Male
Birth day -
Birth month -
Birth year 1898
Age 2
Death quarter 4
Death year 1900
District WEST BROMWICH
County Staffordshire
Volume 6B
Page 496

EDIT - I think John Hubert WAS actually John Herbert as this seems to be him in the 1891 census:-

1891 England, Wales & Scotland Census Transcription
Albion Street, Spalding, Lincolnshire, England

First name(s) Last name Relationship Marital status Gender Age Birth year Occupation Birth place

Hannah Pratt Head Widow Female 46 1845 School Mistress Spalding, Lincolnshire, England
John Herbert Pratt Son Single Male 18 1873 Grocers Apprentice Hedon, Yorkshire, England<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<note birthplace same as on 1911 census and occupation


Kath. x

The 1911 original does look more like Herbert than Hubert especially the signature. He is said to be from Heddon, Yorkshire and Sculcoates (East Riding, Yorks) covers Hedon

Surname First name(s) District Vol Page
Births Mar 1873 (>99%)
PRATT John Herbert Sculcoates 9d 135

This would be John Hubert/Herbert in the 1881 census with his mother, brother and grandmother:-

1881 England, Wales & Scotland Census Transcription
44, Double Street, Spalding, Lincolnshire, England

First name(s) Last name Relationship Marital status Gender Age Birth year Occupation Birth place

Hannah Vine Head Widow Female 57 1824 None Spalding, Lincolnshire, England
Hannah S Pratt Daughter Widow Female 37 1844 School Mistress Spalding, Lincolnshire, England
Arthur Hy Pratt Grand Son Single Male 10 1871 Scholar Hedon, Yorkshire, England
John H Pratt Grand Son Single Male 8 1873 Scholar Hedon, Yorkshire, England<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<
Annie E Vine Grand Daughter Single Female 7 1874 Scholar Spalding, Lincolnshire, England

Kath. x

This would seem to be John Hubert/Herbert's parent's marriage:-

First name(s) HANNAH SUSAN
Last name VINE
Marriage quarter 3
Marriage year 1869
Registration month -
MarriageFinder™ HANNAH SUSAN VINE married one of these people
****JOHN WILLIAM PRATT****, GEORGE JONES
District SPALDING
District number -
County Lincolnshire
Country England
Volume 7A
Page 504

Kath. x

This looks like John Herbert in 1881

England, Wales & Scotland Census Transcription
44, Double Street, Spalding, Lincolnshire, England

First name(s) Last name Relationship Marital status Gender Age Birth year Occupation Birth place
Hannah Vine Head Widow Female 57 1824 None Spalding, Lincolnshire, England
Hannah S Pratt Daughter Widow Female 37 1844 School Mistress Spalding, Lincolnshire,
Arthur Hy Pratt Grand Son Single Male 10 1871 Scholar Hedon, Yorkshire, England
John H Pratt Grand Son Single Male 8 1873 Scholar Hedon, Yorkshire, England
Annie E Vine Grand Daughter Single Female 7 1874 Scholar Spalding, Lincolnshire, England

and the marriage of his parents

Surname First name(s) District Vol Page
Marriages Sep 1869 (>99%)
COLMAN Martha Spalding 7a 504
JONES George Spalding 7a 504
PRATT John William Spalding 7a 504
VINE Hannah Susan Spalding 7a 504

1871 with Father

1871 England, Wales & Scotland Census Transcription
Soutter Gate, Hedon, Sculcoates, Yorkshire, England

First name(s) Last name Relationship Marital status Gender Age Birth year Occupation Birth place
John W Pratt Head - Male 27 1844 - Lincolnshire, England
Hannah T Pratt Wife - Female 27 1844 - Lincolnshire, England
Arthur H Pratt Son - Male 0 1871 - Yorkshire, England
Emma Longwood Servant - Female 16 1855 - Lincolnshire, England

If the child was a stillbirth or died at birth there wont be a birth or death registration

The question about children on the 1911 census asks "how many children born alive" so providing the couple understood the question properly there should have been 4 live births. If it were my family I would definitely investigate the birth and death of John Edward registered in West Bromwich.

Kath. x

Pm sent to Christine to let her know she has replies.

Kath. x

She does, as she has sent me a PM. I've asked her to reply on the thread.

The most relevant part is "My great grandmothers maiden name was Eden"

PM received also.

(have looked on below, but nothing helping, I don't think, although I'm not familiar with areas!)

http://www.westmidlandsbmd.org.uk/

http://www.freereg.org.uk/

Chris :)

PM received from Christine. She is going to contact Staffordshire council about the birth in West Bromwich and send them a cheque as she knows they will not charge her if it isn't a match for the details she gives.

Kath. x

Another PM from Christine - It would really be best if you replied on the thread, not by PM.
......
(slightly edited version of the orginal)

The details I have of my great grandmother are that she was born in Birmingham in 1878. Her full name was Edith Lizzie Eden, also Edith I believe. My great grandmother died in Worcester 1922 aged 44years. I am no where further forward with my research, having been mislead at the weekend by Staffordshire registar`s office did not help either.
..............

1891

Name: Edith Lizze Eden
Age: 13
Estimated birth year: abt 1878
Relation: Daughter
Father's name: William C Eden
Mother's name: Mary Ann Eden
Gender: Female
Where born: Birmingham
Civil Parish: Handsworth
Ecclesiastical parish: Holy Trinity
County/Island: Staffordshire
Country: England
Street address:

Occupation:

Condition as to marriage:

Education:

Employment status:

View image
Registration district: West Bromwich
ED, institution, or vessel: 24
Neighbors: View others on page
Piece: 2263
Folio: 31
Page Number: 16
Household Members:
Name Age
William C Eden 49
Mary Ann Eden 48
William Eden 17
Sarah Ann Eden 21
Edith Lizze Eden 13**********************
Alice Harresion 19