Genealogy Chat

Hi, Wondered if anyone has any ideas i can't get my head around this one. I have been tracing my Grandmothers family (Ellen Sauce) and on the 1851 cenus i found her Great-Grandfather, born in Galway Ireland and living in Warington 1851. The address was Angel Yard, and there were other people listed at that address all with different surnames and mostly from Ireland, i am curious to find out what this 'Angel Yard' was, but how on earth do i do this? I will be grateful for any assistance, Ellen

Ellen, Was wondering if you knew the citation details so that I can have a look at the address. Regards Rachel

Well Angel Yard would just be the courtyard or something - like the name of the road. But in the Liverpool area at that time there are lots of hostels/lodging houses for the Irish. m My OH GGMx2 actually ran a lodging house for Irish immigrants (and she and her hubby were from Ireland themselves).

My grandparents used to live in a yard. It was similar to a close today. Andrew Sauce abt 1825 Galway, Ireland Visitor Warrington Lancashire

Wasn't sure on the Yard bit because you don't really hear that now do you, so it is like 'Close', i see. Rachel, not sure of citation details all i got was Angel Yard, Warrington and that he was a Labourer

I believe Angel Yard was just an address. There are a lot of families with the same address. Andrew Sauce was a visitor in the home of Thomas & Mary Noon, also born Ireland. Rachel, it's HO107, Piece 2203, Folio 260, Page 37. Margaret

The enumeration district description includes a number of 'yards'.......probably local terminology for a particular type of group of dwellings. Immigrants tended to move in to areas together in much the same way as they do today, creating mini-communities in which they felt more 'at home'. There may be some info available in Warrington.........have you thought of contacting the library there? Reg

Reg - good info thanks, yes i will definately visit the library Margaret - thanks for the citation info x

I take it James and Mary Sauce from Galway - a few doors down in Angel Yard are his rellies?

Heather - I hadn't found those a few doors down but they would definately be relatives, how did you find that? (I am new to this not got the hang of it yet!!)

In London you tended to get 'Court, Yard and Row' about that time. I bet they were awful places too.

Hi, well, you could have just entered the surname and residenceWarrington, birthplace Ireland to see if he had any more rellies locally. BUT in this instance, I wanted to see the name of the next road or street for you, in case I could find it on an old map. They seem too near his age to be anything but siblings/cousins? If you look at the image on ancestry (and you SHOULD ALWAYS LOOK AT THE IMAGE - its surprising what you find!), at the top of the image page there are two boxes showing the number of pages in that section/area and the number of page you are on. So it may say 23 in the first box and then 52 in the next one - meaning you are on page 23 of 52 pages in that district. You can then click on previous or next to see the pages either side and keep doing that tosee the previous road or the next one - and all the people living next to your rellies! Glad it may be of assistance to you!

Heather - Brilliant i will try that, thanks for being so helpful!!!

And always remember people tended to stick together back then, particularly if they are immigrants - so have a good look round all the people near your ancestor - likely they knew him in Ireland or are even related.

Yards were like alleyways that ran off the main street betwwen the houses that fronted it. Once you got to the back of these houses there were small terraces of houses which were at right angles to those on the main street. Pity I can't draw it:-)). The name of the Yard often came from the name of the building that was next to it on the main street - in this case is there an Angel Inn anywhere around? Sometimes they were named from the family living next to it eg Thompson's Yard. I would imagine that those in cities could be pretty awful but those in smaller places were quite reasonable and some still exist.

Could this be his brother in 1851, an army gunner at Warley Barracks? Name: Martin Sauce Age: 20 Estimated birth year: abt 1831 Relation: Gunner Gender: Male Where born: Kilclooney, Galway, Ireland Civil parish: Little Warley Ecclesiastical parish: Rochester County/Island: Essex Country: England Occupation: Labourer Registration district: Billericay Sub-registration district: Brentwood ED, institution, or vessel: East India Companys Depot - Warley Barracks

... and here's a witness to a marriage that could be related: Diocese of Clonfert Marriages: Ballinasloe, Creagh & Kilclooney Parishes LDS Film 1279217 July 16, 1854: Patt Malone & Catherine Moran; Sp: John Malone, Honoria Sauce

Paul, just think, if Honaria had the second name Patricia ........................

Just letting you know what i have found...... Bit confusing because DoBs are always different in each census, don't know if they just lie about there age or they actually DONT know!? I am thinking the 1851 census was way out (abt 1825) 1851 census: Andrew Sauce abt1825 (Angel Yard) 1861 census: No find 1871 census: Andrew Sauce abt1841 (14 Town Hill), Wife Bridget Sauce abt1841 1881 census: Andrew Sauce abt1833 (15 Town Hill), Wife Bridget Sauce abt 1833 1891 census: Andrew Sauce abt1835 (15 Town Hill), Wife Bridget Sauce abt 1831

Take it this is his marriage - have you bought the certificate for his fathers name and occupation? (Noticed a Bridget Sauce born c1802 dying Warrington - mum??) Marriages Sep 1863 (99%) -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- >>>Dowd Bridget Warrington 8c 166 Gibbons John Warrington 8c 166 Laffey Mary Warrington 8c 166 >>>Sauce Andrew Warrington 8c 166 Theres something a bit iffy going on in the 1871 census. There is a 14 year old Mary named as a daughter and then a big gap til the next kiddie. If she were 14 then Andrew would have been only 15/16 when she were born. You need to check that one out - she is shown born 1857 - I can see a Mary born that year to another Sauce family member - I wonder if she has been adopted into Andrews family. Something for you to work on there!! If the 1871 ages for Andrew and Bridget as 30 are wrong and they are 40 not 30 in reality, then one of them has likely been married previously to have such a big gap in the kids???