Genealogy Chat

Help with a will

My 7xgreat -grandad James Jones of Shapwick He's the furthest I have got back with this branch, and until this morning this was all I knew of him: Married Mary Parish feb5 1770 Shapwick children William Jones b.1775 (my 6x great grandad) John Jones b1777 Elizabeth Jones b.1779 Charles Jones b.1781 Thomas Jones b.1783 Ann Jones b.feb 1786 died. feb 1786 Samuel Jones b.1788 He died and was buried 21 Septmeber 1810 Shapwick, and Mary was buried 25 october 1834 However this morning I was quite amazed to find a will for him on the national archives I parted with the 3.50 and downloaded it. I've tried my best to trancsribe it, see below, and it does give a fascinating insight into his life and that of his children. Unfortunately did not give his age or birth date which I was really hoping for, but I suppose you can't have everything. Also seems my great-grandad did the least well of all his kids in the will..but again never mind. A few things I wanted help on from some of the more expereinced on here. First the will is dated 1811 even though James died and was buried 1810. It does say P.25 March/24. Does this mean he made the will at an earlier date and it was 'proved' then? Also help with the legal terms such as executor, testator, probate etc. I also make it nine children. Even though he states eight at one point! I was only aware of six so certainly new info for me anyway. Any help much appreciated

Name and description of testator or testatrix: James Jones of Shapwick Somerset, Yeoman Name and place of bode of executor or executrix P.25 March/24 James Jones of Shapwick Charles Jones Name of the Legitee? blank Particulars of the several specific legacies bequest in the trust - and of the residue: After the death of my wife three closes of land in Catcott called moorferlang? or Cholway? containing ten acres. Also a clove of land at Catcoll Pourtler? called bogs or barber leage? containg five acres also two acres an half of land at Catcott called East Moor between my six children James, Mary, Elizabeth, Charles, Thomas and Samuel Jones my heirs and asigns a sen?? common. After the death of my wife cottages and dwelling house and garden at Catcott in the possesion of William Acreman? who holds the same by lease for his life to my daurs Mary and Elizabeth their heirs and asinges as tenants in common Name of the Legitee : William Mogg (son in law) Particulars of the several specific legacies bequest in the trust - and of the residue: My Monity? Estate Right and interest in a close of land in ? Hill the posession of R...? where of I gave him on his marraige with my daur Jane Jones Name of the Legitee :James Jones Particulars of the several specific legacies bequest in the trust - and of the residue: All my furnaces utensils and tools used by him ? in the trade of a soap boiler or tallow chaider? Name of Legitee: William Jones (son) Particulars of the several specific legacies bequest in the trust - and of the residue: 100 Pounds Name of Legitee:John Jones (son) Particulars of the several specific legacies bequest in the trust - and of the residue: 100 Pounds Name of Legitee:Samuel Jones (Son) Particulars of the several specific legacies bequest in the trust - and of the residue: All those five acres and half of Turbury? Land in Catcott Turf Moor. Name of Legitee: My eight children Particulars of the several specific legacies bequest in the trust - and of the residue:My estate and interest in those acres at closes of land lying in the ? of ?.which are held for lives by my brother in law Mr Rowse? his wife or ? of his children. Name of Legitee: James, Mary, Elizabeth, Charles, Thomas and Samuel Jones, Residury legitees Particulars of the several specific legacies bequest in the trust - and of the residue:The Residue

Is the first yes, and wasn't easy, very hard on th eyes! Still over the moon at finding it anyway.

You did brilliantly well transcribing that especially if its your first. Yes the date they give would be the date it is proven, not when he actually died. Is Jane the one you are worrying about - is she the 9th kiddie you say is missing? I have found in the old wills that a married daughter will be expected to be looked after by the husband and I think I noticed he left the dosh to her husband didnt he? Executor is the person/people who administer the will - make sure the dosh is shared out as requested. Testator will be the person making his last will and 'Testament'.

Yes that's right I definently make it 9 James Mary Elizabeth Charles Thomas Samuel William John Jane I suppose your probably right he wasn't counting Jane as she was married out already..different times and all that!

From a google search, not a definitive measure unfortunately: Close (Latin clausura.) A piece of land enclosed by a hedge. .

If you are ever stuck for the meaning of words - like the sizes of land mentioned above - close wasnt it? or Executor/trix - always enter a google search - it has virtually anything you can think of. Well done you. And Wills are lovely to get arent they - make people so real to you.

'Well done you. And Wills are lovely to get arent they - make people so real to you' Certainly do. Before this was really just names on a page, great to be able to put some flesh to the bones. Thanks for the help. I will try trusty old google. There was another thing wasn't to sure of the 'Tallow Chaider' though I expect it probably is just another name for soap making. Tallow is beef fat if I remmber rightly, riots in India years ago when McDonalds turned out to be frying their chips in the stuff? Will pop off and look it up anyway Thanks again!

Name of the Legitee : William Mogg (son in law) Particulars of the several specific legacies bequest in the trust - and of the residue: My Monity? Estate Right and interest in a close of land in ? Hill the posession of R...? where of I gave him on his marraige with my daur Jane Jones See, her hubby got Janes share!

Hi Richard, Well done on finding the Will. I myself have recently found 3 wills of relatives on the National Archives and was equally excited. Especially when one gave me information on 3 children I didn't know about. I was able to transcribe a fair amount myself, but with the help of some lovely ladies on here, I was able to complete the transcription of the words I couldn't read. So if you would like a fresh pair of eyes to look over your will and see if I can make out any words that you can't, then feel free to contact me. I'm happy to take a look for you, can't promise I can complete your transcription for you, but am happy to try just as others have done for me. Regards, Alison

It is Tallow Chandler I expect - made and sold tallow soap and candles. 'Monety' is almost certainly 'Moiety' which means a portion or share, usually a half or larger.(Of land or property) It was fairly usual to leave money to a married daughter's husband, women being silly creatures who couldnt be trusted with money. OC.

OC your right on both of those. It clearly is Moiety, I'd never. heard the term before not being up on those sort of things. Also thanks for the offer Alison, though I think I have it mostly sussed now, just place names having difficulty with but will try again now this morning, with rested eyes!

I've hit a big problem with this! I always thought until now I had William correctly identified. I know 100% my 5xg grandfather was John Hockey Jones born 1803 Shapwick and his parents were William Jones and Elizabeth Hockey married same year. On the IGI there was only one christening for a William, the one above son of James and Mary b.1775 However following up on this will I've now found out there must have been two two marraiges: William Jones and Elizabeth Hockey 1803 William Jones and Elizabeth Winsor 1812 At first I just assumed he must have remarried, BUT horrror of horrors there's also two burials, both around same age: William JONES Date 26 May 1819 Aged 39 Place Shapwick Description Blessed Virgin Mary (b year 1779/80) William JONES Date 3 Dec 1836 Aged 57 Place Shapwick Description Blessed Virgin Mary (b year 1778/9) I've had a dig around on the net and the second one was fatally injured, killed by a gale which all but destroyed the family mill in 1836. His wife Elizabeth or Betty is on the 1841-61 census widowed as a Miller. Apparantly the Mill was in the Jones family from at least early 18th c. First Richard Jones, then handed down to son John Jones (who owned it 1781), then presumably to his son William. This makes me think the first burial 1819 is the William in the will, son of James the Yeoman farmer. Now I have no way of knowing which is my John Hockey Jones father. I am however getting the horrible feeling it may have been the second William, the miller, as if John was his father would make sense he would name his first born son John. This would presumably mean the will above is nothing to do with my relatives after all! Been racking my brains trying to think of a way to find out which is which. Any ideas?

If you go one generation back from the 2 Williams and find the deaths of the 2 fathers does it make it any clearer? Did either of THEM leave a Will? A man with property surely would?.....and might name children and grandchildren. Gwyn

I had an identical problem to this - two men with same name, cousins, born same year and same place. Both married women called Margaret - who died and both men then remarried to guess who, another pair of Margarets. They had virtually identical children. By looking at the burial register for both men, I got the additional, non transcribed information that one was a farmer. He had not left a Will, but his son and his wife had taken out an admon. This in turn led me to a three lives lease on the farm and hurray! My man was the third life, so it gave me HIS father and his grandfather. His grandfather had left a Will and that sorted out all the children and most of the grandchildren. Because of the Admon, the widow was moved to make a full and proper Will of her own, in which she named 37 relatives! Finally, after I had done all this, I discovered some transcribed monumental inscriptions, which proved what I had done and gave me a few more children who died young. I would think both a farmer and a miller would both have left wills, or admons and so would their ancestors. OC

I have gone on NA to advances search and put in Jones, then shapwick in place name, and unfortunately that one will is the only one that it comes up with. After the elation of finding the will yesterday feeling utterly deflated now. That said it's not time or money wasted. Apart from the fact they are in all likelyhood related anyway, cousins etc, I'd rather know if the people I have on my tree are wrong than not know. I'm certain he is one of the two, just wish I knew which one!

Richard I don't know where Shapwick is, sorry, but NONE of my family Wills come up on TNA. I have found most of mine in County Records Offices, or in the Diocesan papers. Remember that most land was once owned by the Church and tenant farmers' Wills would be dealt with in ecclesiastical courts. Have a look on the County Records website to see what they have. You could also try A2A - that has led me to quite a few wills, all in really obscure places, such as Solicitor's offices 500 miles from the area! OC

Thanks OC I will go down that route and see if anything turns up.

Richard This might be useful: (and there may be more documents in the collection) 1740 - Deed - lease for one year of land called Windmill Batch and a windmill, to Richard JOANES, miller of Shapwick. and 1781 John Jones, Miller of Shapwick. (A2A - enter 'Shapwick + Miller' to find, nothing else) Also - the word which I thought must be MOIETY - could it possibly be MONITY? Only, there is a Manor in Shapwick called MONITY. OC