Genealogy Chat

typical! lol Thanks Heather, will have a look online and maybe email them to see if this service is available yet. He didn't die till 1921 so could have had a few years with them Thanks again Laura

Just to add, if he is a postman, then he would have probably got a pension from them with details of family etc on it? You could try the Royal Mail museum. Its online and last time I contacted them they were thinking of doing a look up service. No good for me as my bloke died 6 months before their pension schme started! Sods law

Have decided to maybe get the death cert - read somewhere it may have his parents names on there? or is this only for children who die young? I've emailed a few members on here who I know have the Ashcombe Pudner lot in their trees, but unfortunately no reply as yet. Fingers crossed eh?! I'm 99% certain he's linked to them, I just need to try and find out how! Still not sure if Harry is his dad.... groan Laura

nudge

HI Heather - thanks so much for your help. Yep, sorry, 1891 he is gen lab when living with the Snell family, 1901 he is postman. Have not yet found a connection with the Snells, but the Henry Pudner who I think may be the father (uncle?) in 1891 is living with Amelia (aurelia?) white, who was originally Amelia Brown, daughter of Patience Pudner and John Brown. IN 1891 the Harveys are a couple of doors up, in one of the really early census (1841?) Susan harvey and harry pudner are with John Brown and Patience. IN 1841 Frederick is seemingly with the Harvey family in Manaton, which makes me think they are also related but not yet sure how. I don't recognise any of the other names on the census image for 1901. Thanks again, Laura

Ive got to shoot soon, but I just looked at the 1901 - where he says born Ashcombe? He is living in Water Cottage with a gamekeeper and various others but as far as I can see, it says his occupation is postman, not an ag lab? If thats the case, then there may be a reason for him being there - may be in that someone else in that household is related and he is visiting? Have a look on there a few lines up and down to see if any names ring a bell. (Theres an Amelia a few lines up with a son called Fred - those names mean anything?) 1891 lodging with the Snell family - any connection? 1881 - here is the proof that if Grace is married to your bloke then he is a Naval Blacksmith - on the image next to her name is 'Wife of Naval Blacksmith' - crossed out, but thats just the enumerators workings.

That's what I thought, but that's definitely what it says. I'm wondering if the form was filled in later, when he was adult and blacksmith, but he joined up at 10 as maybe an apprentice? I was using 1837 as the date from his age on the 1841 census, he's also down as 1837 on the 1891 census. It must have been before the reg started though as I can't find him on any indexes.

I cant believe that record can be right - I thought he was born 1837 anyway? He was 4 in the 1841. 10 years old in 1845 would take him back 2/3 more years. Are you absolutely sure it says 10 - a full grown man was lucky to be 5' 6' at that time, let alone a little kiddie. What age did it give for him at his death? I hope its not the case, but it does sound like two Freds on the go here?

No death cert as yet, but have found it on the index - do you recommend getting it? What more could I find out from it? the seaman record I have definitely says trade is blacksmith, date and period of C,S engagement 23 august 1845, age 10 years. (5ft6 at 10 yrs old? or maybe that was a measurement at a later stage, but he signed up at 10? then did an apprenticeship?) I'm sorry to be a pain, I think I must have been really luck with the other branches of my tree as although I've only got back to late 1700s on them all, they've all been relatively easy to find info out except these Pudners! Yep- sorry- meant Henry! Laura

There are two possibilities for his parents so far I think John Pudner b1813 Ashcombe married Jane b1807 Torr, Devon or Henry Pudner b1815 Kingskerswell who married Jane b1820 Wellford, Glos. This would tie in with Henry on the 1841 census, but Jane (if she is Fred's mother) would have only been about 15 when he was born?

Well I cant see any problem with someone called John Harry calling himself Harry on a census (Henry come to that). A 10 year old blacksmith - I dont think thats right. For one thing he would have to have served an apprenticeship, so he would have been hammering metal from about 3! Are you sure you have the right record? Take it no sign of a birth reg for him. Have you got his death cert?

I need to find some way of linking Frederick to the other Pudner's I have.... I still don't know for sure who his parents are - on the Marriage cert it seems to be John Pudner, but the Pudner;s we've found as above are Harry and Jane. I have found Pudners in the area at the time, and have managed to trace the other surnames forward, but I still haven't got that little nugget that connects Frederick to the others. On the census with his wife Grace and the children, she is down as the wife of a naval seaman. On the marriage certificate he is down as a seaman but on the censuses later when he is living apart from his wife and children he is down as an ag/gen lab. I'm wondering whether his father could be John Harry Pudner as Frederick and Grace's eldest son is called John Harry. This would explain the John on the marriage cert, but the Harry on the census? I have the seaman record for Frederick, it looks like he joined up age 10 on 23rd august 1845 as a blacksmith? is that a normal age? seems quite young, though I know children weren't really 'children' in those days.... He served on many ships, including the Indus, Osprey and Britannia, and was invalided out in 1883? (it's quite difficult to read) I'm sorry to keep on, I just feel inspired knowing I found out all the above in a weekend, but am impatient and would like to tie it together to carry on! Laura x

Oh, and on his seamans record his place of birth is down as Dawlish - I know I can find lots of Pudners in Dawlish on the census, it's linking them in again that is the trouble. Laura

What ideas do you want??? What is his occupation that may be the reason he is not with the wife on the census every time?

Any more ideas? Anyone? Pretty please?

nudged for any other ideas/tips/comments ??? Laura x

Right, well I have plenty of info on he browns/harveys now, I just need to find the connecting link for certain! I think Henry must be the brother of Patience, which is how he's connected to the Browns etc. Then, If Frederick is Henry and Jane's son that would explain him being the nephew, BUT on the marriage cert I have Frederick's dad down as John - could this be another brother? And why doesn't he live with them for the whole of his life?! hmmmm, time to go to bed methinks! Laura

Thanks Rose especially for the 'brown' bit - i was just looking through the censuses and couldn't find the family at all! will have another look now... Laura (this is good, it's keeping me away from Big Brother!!!!!) PS - in1901 Tormoham I have Henry Pudner living with Aurilia Margret White b1838 Brixham, which looking at the info you've posted above, I reckon that;'s Amelia

Think John's wife Patience was a Pudner. These children are listed on IGI: 1. AMILIA MARGARET BROWN - International Genealogical Index Gender: Female Christening: 22 OCT 1835 Brixham, Devon, England 2. SELINA PATIENCE PODNER BROWN - International Genealogical Index Gender: Female Christening: 20 MAR 1834 Brixham, Devon, England Rose

Hi Laura, The surname is Brown and not Brows. In 1841 the Browns have a Henry Pudner and Susan Harvey living with them. Rose