Genealogy Chat

Same in my husband's family, his great grandmother was married, had two children, husband died, she then had one by the son of the house she worked in, with her married name on the childs birth certificate, but no fathers name. Had to leave house, as was done in those days . Family say was a Lords house? Then had another child and had her married name on birth cerificate, no fathers name. She then met someone, and they lived together and had a family, her name then of this man, and the children's birth certifiates with the name of their father. On all the census all the family took the name of the man she was living with, even the two by her husband. No marriage ever found, and of course not mentioned, as frowned upon in those days. Maureen

Carol I agree with Heather, I think Eliza married William Winn & had children with him & then when he died she began a relationship with Joseph Maddocks but never married him and then after he died in 1898 she started using her married surname & that is why she is back to Winn in 1901. The children probably used the surname Winn after their fathers death because their mother was using it. Georgina.

Heather, just seen your message, I think you are right about changing the childrens names to Winn. Could I find out if this was done legally or not, or should I just leave it at that? - Carol

Helllio Georgina & Heather, thankyou for trying to help, I know this is all confusing. On Annie Winn's marriage cert 1911, her father is stated as Joseph Winn, Occupation Labourer. Will be going out for the day now, I'll check replies later. Thanks again in advance - Carol... P.S sorry Helen, missed your message. I'd like to thank you also for your help. - Carol

This looks like a possible death for Joseph...... Deaths Dec 1898 (>99%) Maddocks Joseph 50 W. Ham 4a 37 Georgina.

This is Carol's earlier post Georgina, this is where it starts to get confusing. Marriage of James William Hall and Annie Winn. Fathers names: James William Hall & Joseph Winn. According to Annie's birth cert, she was born Annie Elizabeth Maddocks. Father Joseph Maddocks. Mother: Eliza Maddocks, late Winn, formerley Athill. The 1901 census contradicts Eliza's surname, on census she is Eliza Winn. - Carol I think Annie was registered Maddocks but parent's didn't marry then Joseph died and Eliza reverted to Winn and the childen were known as Winn also....then Annie married as Annie Winn but gave her father's christian name Joseph.....

Carol if you are about what was Joseph Maddocks occupation on Annies marriage certificate? Georgina.

This birth certificate may help (although they may have fibbed!) William Charles Maddox Year of Registration: 1889 Quarter of Registration: Jul-Aug-Sep District: West Ham County: Essex, Greater London Volume: 4a Page: 157

Can anyone find Joseph Maddox/Maddocks before 1891?

I have found the daughters marriage in 1911 but it looks like the mother never married Mr Maddocks she may have just taken his name? Georgina.

Georgina I haven't found a marriage to Joseph Maddox/Maddocks. Daughter Annie Maddox married a Hall, I think, from Carol's info.

Heather I missed that bit of info, can you find another marriage for Eliza Winn? Georgina.

Hi Georgina I was following this thread last night and I was looking for George and young Eliza in 1891. Carol has said that she thinks George E and Edward are the same person.

Hi Carol, I have been looking at the census info I found above & something seems wrong.... 1901 census... Annie Maddocks 8 Joseph H Maddocks 4 Willie Maddocks 11 Eliza Winn 15 Eliza A Winn 44 George E Winn 21 1891 census... Edward Maddox 11 Eliza Maddox 35 Joseph Maddox 42 Rose Maddox 14 Willie Maddox 1 1881 census... Eliza Winn 26 George Winn 1 Rasina Winn 4 William Winn 30 I cant find Edward in 1881 as a Maddocks.Maddox or a Winn, we found a possible death for William Winn but I cant see another marriage for Eliza Winn, can you just explain where the Hall name comes into the family? Georgina.

Yes, it is late, thanks for all your help. I don't understand why Eliza was Maddox in 1891, her daughters birth cert in 1892 says Mothers name Eliza Maddocks then in 1901 census she's back to using the name Winn. Strange relations I have, wish they could've made up their minds, things would be much easier. Goodnight - Carol

Carol I think I need to go to bed because I cant seem to find any other marriage for Eliza or Annie Winn to a Maddocks, it seems strange because she has the Maddocks children with her in 1901. I will check back tomorrow & see if anyone else has come up with anything. Georgina.

Yes, thats them Georgina. I think Rosina is shortend to Rose in the 1891 census you showed me earlier. And it seems like George E Winn, became just Edward in 1891 census. I have an awkward family don't I? - Carol

I've been looking for Williams death, I couldn't find it. Thanks Georgina - Carol

This looks like William's death reference... Deaths Jun 1884 (>99%) Winn William 33 Lambeth 1d 277 Georgina.

Thankyou Georgina, I've seen this marriage reference before, wasn't sure if I had the right people. You have confirmed it to me now, we both can't be wrong can we. - Carol