Genealogy Chat

(Please see below for a readable copy of my sorry story). Thanks, Shareen.

Early census mystery - what do I do now? Can anyone advise me how to find my gx3 grandfather’s parents? I have all census entries for Isaac LAW (from 1851 census onwards until his death in about 1887) with his children living at Longacres Farm in Facit, but how can I find his parents? There is a 15 year old Isaac Law on the 1841 census who I guess could be him, but he's living with a couple in their seventies so no clue there as to parentage, if that is indeed him. I also have a certified copy marriage entry which gives his father as William LORD (mistranscribed?), occupation Fulling Miller. There is a William LAW fulling miller on the 1841 census who could be his father, but how can I check whether or not this is him? Sadly Isaac is not coming up on familysearch. And someone on this board very kindly looked him up for me at the Lancs record office under baptisms at St Anns church 1823-1825 (I was told he was baptised there by a distant relative) but without joy. (The distant relative knows no more either). Is this the end of the line? I would be really very grateful for any advice anyone can give as to where I should look now, or whether this must remain a mystery. (I am doing all of this primarily as a surprise wedding gift for my brother who gets married in October 2006 so I am running out of time). Many apologies if you have read this before on the Records Board – I think that was the wrong place to post! Thanks, Shareen.

which one is your man in the 1851? where was he then

Please could you give some more specifics. We need to find these people you mention on the various census returns! Merry

Shareen, this information the distant relative gave you must either be right or wrong. If right, then his baptism should be in the parish records for that church, but perhaps outside the date range you specified (he could have been baptised late), or he was illegitimate and baptised in his mother's maiden name, or the person who looked it up at the records office missed it for some reason. If the distant relative was wrong, then Isaac was probably baptised somewhere else, so hopefully his baptism will turn up in another set of parish records. Oh, and you could also try the bishop's transcripts for the parish you think he was baptised in if they are available. But you might find that you have to go and look through parish records yourself, working outwards from the place he says he was born on the censuses, until you find an Isaac with father William. If the William you have found has any children with him in 1841 then hopefully their baptisms will be in the same parish as Isaac's to help confirm it. It's hard to come up with more specific advice without more details. Kate.

Oh, and the couple Isaac is with in 1841 could be a clue as to his parentage if they turn out to be his maternal grandparents! You could try looking for a marriage between William Law (or Lord) and anybody with the couple's surname to see if anything turns up (though of course if they are called Smith it won't really prove much!) Kate.

And this will probably be my last suggestion for now... who were the witnesses on Isaac's marriage certificate? Maybe their names will provide a clue. Kate.

Is St Ann's in Rochdale? Where is Facit? There are 24 William Laws in Rochdale in 1841.....which one is the fulling miller?? I know you will answer after I've gone out!! Kate....the couple in their 70's in 1841 are also William Law and likely his wife. So probably paternal grandparents! (in Rochdale with Isaac born 1826) Merry

Presumably this is the Isaac you mention you found in 1841: View Record Name Estimated Birth Year BirthPlace Civil Parish County/Island View Image View Record Ann Law abt 1771 Lancashire, England Rochdale Lancashire View Record Isaac Law abt 1826 Lancashire, England Rochdale Lancashire View Record William Law abt 1766 Lancashire, England Rochdale Lancashire I haven't looked at the image yet, but don't forget that William and Ann might be brother and sister rather than husband and wife, and it is just possible that this William is Isaac's father, though not very likely, I grant you. (This William is a cotton weaver.) Back soon, no doubt... Kate.

Oh, I typed a great long message in but I lost it because I got cut off without noticing! Anyway, try this site: http://www.lan-opc.org.uk/ (Lancashire Online Parish Clerks) It has St. Chad's in Rochdale with baptisms up to 1825, presumably they are going to add later years soon. No Isaac Law on there but plenty of other Laws, some whose fathers are Fullers (oh, and loads of Lords). Might be interesting for you to look at, anyway, even though it isn't St. Ann's. Kate.

Kate, Merry, Jess, thanks so much for your replies. So sorry for the delay in responding - I didn't expect responses so quickly! (Am at work but will check back regularly all day now in case you come back again). To answer your questions: Jess - in 1851 he is at Longacres farm in Facit (I think this is now known as Whitworth) in Spotland (which is in Rochdale - I don't think it's referred to as Spotland any more). He is living with wife Sarah and children John (b1846), Sarah (b1847) and William (b1850). In 1861 he's still there, now also with Martha (b1853) Mary (b1856) and Emma (b.1860). In 1871 he's still there, now also with Jane (b1866) and Hannah (b1869), although from memory the two eldest have moved away by then. He's also still there in 1881. (In 1991 after Isaac's death, William Law is living there having taken over the farm, with his own wife Emma and their children). Kate - I was given a specific date at St Anne's church Turton (near Bolton, Lancs) and am inclined to believe it's correct although I agree I do need to test this if possible. The relative's notes said 'no sign of parents' therefore not sure this record would help anyway. If you look at all the census returns his birthplace is given as Turton, so it is backed up at least in one respect. It's a good point about checking William Law the Fulling Miller's children's baptisms - I hadn't even thought of that. Annoyingly I have left my file at home but I will come in tomorrow fully armed to do some searching. The William I think might be his dad is on the 1841 and 1851 censuses in a village called Hallfold, also in Spotland I believe, with his wife Sarah and children. Isaac's wedding certificate gives one of the witnesses as Thomas Clegg. There are Cleggs in the area on all the censuses I printed out for Isaac, including a Thomas Clegg, but have not been able to gain anything more from this. Kate - yes, that's him (the entry you printed above). Although the birthdate doesn't quite match up, but then I have found, as I'm sure others have, that they often don't! Thank you thank you thank you again for your interest and all of your suggestions. Any help you are able to give is very much appreciated. Sx

ps I believe his birthdate to be 1824 - when I search on Ancestry for Isaac Law in 1824 he's the first one on the list. (I don't have a subscription any more - I did the free two weeks thing and it took me all that time to get all the census entries I needed - so i ran out of time to solve the parentage mystery).

Shareen, if I were you I would definitely check out that baptism you were given details of. I can't imagine what s/he meant by 'no sign of parents', though - does that mean Isaac's baptism is listed without names of parents? That would be very unusual indeed, and I would expect there to be some kind of explanation given in the parish register! (Unless the info was taken from some kind of parish register extract / bishop's transcripts?) Kate.

So this is Isaac in 1851 with his wife and first children (for ref)...... Household Members: Name Age Isaac Law 26 John Law 5 Sarah Law 25 Sarah Ann Law 3 William Law 1 Living at Civil parish: Spotland Ecclesiastical parish: Whitworth County/Island: Lancashire Country: England and Isaac says he was born at Garton, Lancs. The image doesn't look like Garton, though......can someone else look at it, please? Merry

I think it says Turton, Lancs. Merry

This chap may be the one you were looking at.....1851: Household Members: Name Age Alfred Law 25 John Law 19 Mary Law 17 Sarah Law 50 William Law 51 William Law 15 Giles Stansfield 25 William, 51, born Holcombe Lancs.....fulling miller emp 50 men. This would make him an important member of the community. Quite a large business! The children are born in different places......looks like Belfield for the eldest child and Littleton for the others. I don't know Lancs at all, so I don't know where these places are, or if they are near to where Isaac says he was born? Merry

Yes Merry that's him - William the Fulling Miller. Holcombe is, I believe, near to (or in) Bolton where Isaac was born. I'm a bit hazy with these places too. I think Garton is mistranscribed too - supposed to be Turton. It's Turton in all the other cenuses. And yes, that's Isaac you've found with his wife and children.

Here is the fulling miller in 1841. Alfred Law abt 1825 Lancashire, England Rochdale Lancashire Ellin Law abt 1831 Lancashire, England Rochdale Lancashire John Law abt 1831 Lancashire, England Rochdale Lancashire Mary Law abt 1833 Lancashire, England Rochdale Lancashire Sarah Law abt 1801 Lancashire, England Rochdale Lancashire William Law abt 1801 Lancashire, England Rochdale Lancashire William Law abt 1835 Lancashire, England Rochdale Lancashire Alice Tomlinson abt 1821 Lancashire, England Rochdale Lancashire I wonder if William Law, fulling miller is the son of William Law, head of house in 1841 and living with Isaac?? Therefore he is with his paternal grandparents? Merry

Merry, that's what I thought too. It's so tantalisingly close but am missing that vital link back to Isacc!

I have checked the British Isles Vital Records Index (BIVRI) for baps for these people, but no luck :o(( Merry