General Chat

Cat - I think the hihijab and the burkha are one and the same (Both essentially male imposed)- depends on the country.

Igor,
Can I just point out that not all Muslim countries are the same.
There are some countries where you can indeed practise your religion.
In Cairo I have been to All Saints Cathedral, one of two cathedrals I know of, and there are many Christian churches there.
In Aqaba, Jordan, I used to pass the Catholic church on my way to a friend's house. Jordan is extremely tolerant of Christianity and has plenty of christian churches.

I think you are thinking of somewhere like Saudi, for example, as being the norm, where they do not recognise any other religion except their own, and therefor will not tolerate the practising of any other religion in their country. It's not the same in all Muslim countries.

K

EDIT: Forgot to say, there are several million Christian Coptics in Egypt today.

igor

Just some friendly advice.

Inform yourself.

And if you are *not* a bigot, stop acting like one. It's unseemly.

What have the policies of other countries got to do with anyone living in your country, or my country?

Answer: NOTHING.

Think about that before you speak. That is my advice.

jihad and the burkha is not a religion..
no bible says woman have to wear these , its the sad muslim men who have 10 wives that say woman have to wear these ....

Ps did anyone watch alan titchmas the other day ... OMG itv it ppl .. was bleedy good and all about this lol x

Gee, thanks Karen (labels LOL).
Igor, just to back Karen up - Saudi 'tolerated' infidels in the 1970's as Faisal was a tolerant king - and Saudi needed foreigners (usually not Islam) to improve the state of the country, for example, my dad taught Saudi's to fly, but it was difficult to practice your religion if you weren't Islam, but the 'compounds' - where most foreigners lived (not my dad though) had a church.
BTW, I have no problems with what I say on any forum about Islam.
My dad was a true believer in the Qu'uran, which (unlike the Bible) preaches peace. Not to be confused with Sharia'h and the other off shoots of Islam, and the manic declarations of ignorant barnpots who declare themselves 'spokesmen' of Islam


It's like saying all Protestants followed Paisley.

edit: No we shouldn't allow shariah law into Britain

They're only allowed 4 wives Rosie - all to be treated equally - don't get confused with Mormons!!! LOL

Lol Maggie is that all .. well with the burkhas on and 1 eye showing i bet he cant recognise em lol

i think if England excepts all faiths then all other countries should except our faith .. regardless .. but that so not to be .. so much for us being a free country .. oh yes that is what this is

Look at the shoes, Rosie - it's easy!! LOL

oh yer silly me lol ....but im sure they all wear the same shoes lol

Probably not Rosie - don't forget - the husband CAN see his wife's face - and - if he's really clever they don't have the same names!! LOL
If he's incredibly clever, he'd have a spreadsheeto on the wall of when he's seen wife No. whatever, and when! LOL

Eeeh Karen - you'd think it was a foreign country wouldn't you!! LOL

LOL

Thanks for all the replies, very informative.

My own opinion is that the one-eyed look would be a total subjugation of woman through humiliation. IMO many woman do pay particular attention to eye makeup, it's their only asset on view so why not?

They are going to let pretty daft if this is adopted.

x

So, what progress or otherwise has been made since this old thread was 'live'?

The recent news of a burkini ban in France is an attack on religious freedom - so say many commentators. Why are there so many religiously intolerant movements all of a sudden?

Reading the beginning of this thread made me think about the Malleus Malefecarum which is available on-line if anybody who has not encountered it would like to have a look at it..

From the ignorant rantings of those with far too much power and far too little experience (think Mein Kampf as well) came immeasurable suffering of the innocent.

We must never criticise women just for excessive modesty - but we must defend their freedom of choice and not allow them to be forced to hide themselves from a mixed sex world with no independence and be told that anything else is a sexual sin. The burkini ban was preposterous!

Saudi Arabia is to say the least of it atypical of Arabic countries. Afghanistan is not and never was Arabic. Neither is Iran. Kurds are not Arabs.

Sharia "law" has no legal basis in any European Union country or the USA.

In the UK people can if they wish enter into agreements under sharia law but only so far as there is no conflict with UK law. You do not need to be a muslim to enter into a sharia law agreement - for instance UKGov is using London office space funded from a sharia loan with the interesting condition that alcohol cannot be served in the said offices lol. It is commonplace in middle eastern countries for westerners to enter into sharia law agreements for buying cars, renting apartments and so on.

The degree to which such things as dress code and social freedom for wives and daughters varies a great deal with (a) the country in question and (b) the socio economic class of the person. Saudi Arabia restricts social interaction between Europeans and locals so far as possible typically by controlling where westerners may live and so on. Women cannot drive though this may soon change.

In say, Kuwait, westerners can live wherever they can afford the rent so that apartment blocks with a wide mix of nationalities and religions are commonplace. There is a large Roman Catholic cathedral on the seafront in Kuwait. At private "beach clubs" - all of which admit westerners as members - it is not in the slightest bit unusual to see muslim women wearing bikinis. The club counts as an extension of the home. Women are allowed to drive though whether this is a good road safety idea I am not sure. The right is certainly popular. Kuwait even has women MPs in parliament. Much the same is true of Egypt, Iraq and the Lebanon and used to be true of Syria. However those of a more liberal disposition are far more garded than they once were.

Several important islamic countries have a long history of not allowing islamic traditional practices an excessive role in secular life. These include Turkey, Syria, Iraq and Egypt. A great deal of the current troubles is due to the west not understanding that what it sees as political freedom ("Arab spring") is actually handing power to the fundamentalists. Only Russia seems to understand this and as a result what calls itself the west is rapidly losing out.

The burkha is obviously an odious way to imprison women. These days it is also dangerous as the person wearing a burka could be a terrorist with bomb belt - not an infrequent event in Kabul or Baghdad.

Other than that special case there is nothing unreasonable in requiring people to dress modestly. It is not oppressive. Middle eastern countries tend to be dry and dusty with horrors such as dust storms which can go on for days with a humid heat. A niqab and hood can protect clothes and hair from this which is something western women resident in the Gulf soon pick up. Veils can be endlessly sexy which seems to be a penny that has only recently dropped with the religious nutters. There is a an extensive eqtiquette of the veil and to see it as oppressive is wrong. I have never seen anybody wearing the veil indoors.

The Holy Qaran has mixed messages. On the one hand islam has no concept at all of division between the secular ( the state ) and Islam (submission to god) . The salafists / wahabis are determined to enforce this in a very cruide way as has happened in Saudi and under ISL. On the other hand it exhorts islamic people not to dwell longer in infidel countries than is needed to conclude business but while there to obey the laws of the country....

Help please, Rollo, as it's a long time since I studied this.

If UKGov office has been funded by a Sharia loan how is that working since Islam forbids usury?