General Chat

janey you can twist what i say all you like
feel free twist away
i did not say it was women and children

the scandal of Ethiopia spending our aid
was well reported at the time
the facts are there happy Google hun
and wether you have breakfast is no concern of mine what so ever

also the state this country is in at the minute
could just do that bankrupt it
there is not one person in this country
that wont be affected by our current situation
so let us put our own house in order first
nursing homes are shutting here for lack of money
to keep them going what is to become of our old folks
the ones who fought to keep us free people

and if bill gates is so clever the amount of money he has
he couldnt spend in a life time
so let him send them aid

JoyBoroAngel, I don't need to twist your words. You write twisted words.

You said that the people your son was helping attacked his jeep convoy.

I say that is false. I say the people he was helping were largely women and children, and no women and children attacked anything.

I doubt that any of the individual people that your son was helping attacked anything either.

I think you are using unpleasant terms like "those people" and "them" to pretend that one person is the same as another person, and they're all one great big "them", when it comes to people of other colours and cultures and nationalities.

You said the people your son was helping attacked his jeep convoy. They did not.

No more than YOU attacked and invaded Iraq.


"and if bill gates is so clever the amount of money he has
he couldnt spend in a life time
so let him send them aid"

Gee, JoyBoroAngel, there's a name for this. It's called an "ad hominem" (against the man) argument. (I use a term of my own that isn't sexist.)

You can't argue with what Bill Gates said, so you say bad things about him.

Bill Gates actually does donate large amounts of money to many causes. He and Warren Buffett have recently challenged the super-rich to give away half of their own wealth. Maybe that's something else you need to educate yourself about.

When you say about Bill Gates, "so let him send them aid", you just look like you have no idea what you're talking about, but figured you'd say it anyway.

Nonetheless, that has nothing to do with the merits of what he said that I quoted.

Cutting foreign aid by even a small percentage could mean that hundreds of thousands of children don't get vaccinated against diseases that no child in our countries will ever know about, and die horrible deaths.

But hey, they're just "those people", and who cares?

Janey i have worked myself for a Nepalese family
loved them to bits
i have worked with a leukemia victim from Iraq
and love her and her family to
so dont play the race card
i dont care what color or creed people are

my son was helping educate the Nigerian people
in engineering to advance their skills
i did not mention the children or women you did

and i dont suppose they stole the helicopters
and held it to ransom
no janey everybody can fly one lol twice

must be a figment of my imagination to hun

quotes you
Cutting foreign aid by even a small percentage could mean that hundreds of thousands of children don't get vaccinated against diseases that no child in our countries will ever know about, and die horrible deaths.

my answer is let your country pay more
till we sort our own country's debts out
after all your country does not pay as much foreign aid
as we do does it

Isnt the old saying :

"Charity begins at home"

"my son was helping educate the Nigerian people
in engineering to advance their skills"

Actually, he was helping to educate SOME Nigerian people. INDIVIDUALS.

Did the people he was educating attack his jeep convoy?

Please. Tell us. Maybe he remembers their names.


"and i dont suppose they stole the helicopters
and held it to ransom
no janey everybody can fly one lol twice"

I only wish I knew what this meant.

Are you saying that his students stole helicopters and held them to ransom?

A lot of people in Nigeria can fly helicopters, I don't doubt. There is a lot of military, and various armed rebel groups fighting various conflicts over various causes.

http://www.ploughshares.ca/libraries/ACRText/ACR-Nigeria.html

Armed Conflicts Report
Nigeria (1990 - first combat deaths)
Update: February 2010

It's a long one ...


JoyBoroAngel, I don't care how many of your best friends are foreigners.

The things you said about people in need of foreign aid were ugly. Just sickeningly ugly.


"after all your country does not pay as much foreign aid
as we do does it"

I already answered the question, before you asked it.

Not these days, we don't. Like I said, we've had a right-wing government for a few years now (and a moderately right-wing "Liberal" government for a while before that). Maybe we can talk when you've had yours for as long. In 1993 our figure was 0.44% of GDP, pretty much what yours is now.

JackInTheBox, whatever your point was -- google that phrase to find out what it really means.


Here, I'll make it easy:

http://www.genesreunited.co.uk/boards.asp?wci=thread&tk=1201604


"I feel it is also important that all texts are understood outside the particular religion which 'owns' them. The arguments around interpretation will continue - I know Christians who think 'Charity begins at home' means you should look after only your own nearest and dearest - the rest of the world can go hang."

is not actually what it meant when it was first spoken.

I may be wrong but perhaps the reason why people have so many children are similar to the reasons why our ancestors had so many. With child mortality being so high and people dying at earlier ages owing to diseases and other factors, many may choose to have a high number of children in the hope that some may survive long enough to support them when they are old or infirm. I can't imagine that they have the pension system that we all have or the benefit systems when they are unable to work. I do think it is a shame that this government is in effect cutting aid/help to charities at a time when people can't afford to give so much and more help is needed both at home and abroad.

I dont need to google anything, i know what it means to me.

janey i am not nit picking with you
you have your opinions and i will have mine
i have not resorted to name calling or stereotyping
maybe one day just maybe lol
we will find a subject we can agree on
for now my charitable contributions will be for charity's here in Brittan
shame the aid we have already given
over the years is not more appreciated



jack in the box i agree
charity does begin at home well for now it does

And I guess that's just the last word.

"shame the aid we have already given
over the years is not more appreciated"

Shame you're just making stuff up. Again.

Oh, and saying vile things about other human beings. Again.

You have no basis whatsoever for saying that people, other human beings, in this world who receive your foreign aid do not appreciate it.

And your clear insinuation that they do not appreciate it really is nothing more than name calling and stereotyping.

Yup, SRS, that's what I was saying.

When our ancestors lived in a society where most people worked on the land, and then in cities where they were paid starvation wages, they had to have lots of children. And lots of them died.

My mother's father's father was one of 8 children -- that I know of from censuses; who knows how many other Hill births in Cornwall were theirs? ;) Four of them lived to have their own children.

Three likely died of tuberculosis as small children; one did as a young adult. My gr-grfather's first wife and daughter, and a niece, again that I know of, died young of TB.

That, and worse, are how much of the world's population still lives.

None of it was my ancestors' fault.

And my ancestors weren't responsible for the governments that lived off the fat of the land while they were dying -- and the fat of a lot of other people's lands, in the case of the British ruling classes.

Just as none of it is the fault of the children dying of TB and other diseases, or their parents, in Africa or anywhere else today.

I know what it means to you too, JackInTheBox.

As someone I quoted in that other thread said:

"People who say 'Charity begins at home' either don't want to give to charity, or in particular don't want to give to any charities who work in other countries. Saying 'Charity begins at home' doesn't actually mean anything and is just an excuse. ...
Why use excuses? If you don't want to donate to a charity, just don't do it. No need for excuses, if you're in the right about it."

How do you know what it means to me????
Are you a mind reader because i havent said anywhere on the internet
what i think it means, so you couldnt have googled it!!!!

Strewth wasn't expecting to come back to this!

The topic is that the UK Govt has decided to cut Gift Aid by 3%.

My concern being how charities who rely on this income will cope with the shortfall & to some degree where these cuts will stop.

Can I ask you Janey-in Canada does the Govt support charities in a similar way or do you have a different system? There are several significant charities local to me that rely totally on donations & sponsership I do worry that they will struggle.

(the delete was me)

Sorry Janey if I've duplicated - was reading on my phone earlier and I do tend to skim ;)

I'm probably about to do some duplicating again ;) :

As you say people can decide to give to charities or not and what charities they choose.

I hope people don't neglect foreign charities as I'm sure many countries worldwide are hit by the recession. People abroad are also hit by tragedies in such large scales ie earthquakes, floods etc. that we rarely see,

Even down to Malaria which is a huge killer in many countries, we are fortunate not to suffer from this in our country. Surely that's down to location and luck rather than what someone may or may not have done.

Re the Cumbrian floods, I would be expecting more help from people within this country rather than looking elsewhere. I wouldn't expect help from countries abroad who are struggling to tackle their own problems whilst our country is relatively rich.

I think what was trying to be said by Joy was, if we continue with so much foreign aid our own charities will suffer which is a shame, and yes i agree with her.

thats exactly what i was saying JITB thank you

Lesley we are in trouble big trouble

and 3% will make a difference

A massive difference for a charity I support.
If they receive the same donations in a year with 3% less Gift Aid they expect to lose £25,000.

I tend to agree that whilst the situation is so harsh we do need to look after No1 a bit better.

Hi Joy :)

Yes 3% will make a big difference to the charities at a time that people are struggling. The shortfall will make a difference to charities that help in this country and those that help abroad.

I'm not sure what is meant by this comment:

"if we continue with so much foreign aid our own charities will suffer"

If Auntie Joan has always supported the RNIB and Uncle Peter supports RNLI, what difference will the government granting foreign aid make to their donations?

If I support a malaria charity for the past few years and have never supported any UK charities, why would the government giving foreign aid make a difference to whom I give my money to?

Am I missing something?

Lesley hello
what it means i think is with the massive cuts
people wont be able to make the donations
they have given in the past and its a shame