General Chat

I work in a school & was horrified when I read about the mouth tape incident.

Doesn't matter whatever the reason for doing it, even if it was done tongue in cheek it was wrong, its just not an appropriate thing to do in school. In fact it pretty well humiliating.

These children are year 5 or 6. Yes they will talk & push boundaries but the school would have sanctions put in place for persistent talking or the like. Time out, missed playtime etc. The.class teacher should be in full understanding of her school polices & etiquette. Its drummed into staff for their own protection as well as the children they care for..

Regarding the Teacher possibly getting to the end of her tether, if she over reacts in that sort of way over noisy talking she should not be anywhere near the classroom.
Noisy children are part of the teaching environment is dealt with almost daily at least once, & believe me, there are often very difficult issues teachers face on a daily basis which they are trained to deal with which make the issue of talking a tiny drop in the ocean.

As for corporal punishment, I hope it never returns. I was terrified of our Headmaster in junior school. I was never naughty, but a boy in my class was called Terry. He spent a lot of time getting the cane & used to smirk after his lashing. Used to hang round the street in his teens & once threw stones at my Mum & I as we walked past, I hated him. Never learned a lesson & is probably in jail or dead by now.

Such punishments deter many from doing wrong mainly the good kids, but for many it just made them harder.

As people have said, we don’t know the full story – if she had had the time to apply tape to all of the class, then it wasn’t a ‘red mist’. Had it perhaps started out as a slightly frustrated ‘joke’? What ever the background, the teacher should have known better and just left it as a ‘threat’.

Teaching methods, especially in Primary School have changed drastically since ‘our day’. Then, we were more often than not sat in rows and learnt not to question the ‘learning’ and to follow instructions. Probably sometime in the mid 60’s the furniture was re-arranged so that the children sat in groups, worked together and were encouraged to ask questions. For some, the self discipline ie not talking when the teacher or other adult is, hasn't been learned.

Adults *are* allowed to restrain disruptive students – stand behind them, cross your own hands in front of them, grasp their wrists and cross their own arms in front of their body – an impromptu straight jacket.

Florence - enjoying the job is the biggest part because without that I am sure you would flip - people like you do a tremendous job - one which many people are all to quick to criticise without realising what people in the teaching profession (as opposed carers, minders, fosterers etc) actually do.

I am not criticising others but I do think that we sometimes forget the important part teachers and their assistants play.

Errol. yes think I should have made it clear, that I personally think the situation probably had been brewing and probably this is what might have made the teacher flip.No doubt the details will emerge eventually in the coming days/weeks.

I do enjoy my job, but you needs oodles of patience( thankfully i have lots) and a sense of humour. Without these ingredients my job would be an awful lot more difficult !
Florence
in the hebrides

Florence I do agree with much of what you say but I think caution has to be taken when saying things like "This situation that has occurred didnt just happen today as im sure the situation has probably been growing bigger and bigger over days or weeks until the teacher flipped."

We do not know the situation.

Your comment about 2014 - so what...? is spot on!!!

I work in a primary school as a special needs auxiliary. I also help out in a variety of classes with mainstream pupils.

We have some with huge behavioural problems, some who just don't like school and so play up in class and those that think they know it all and quote their rights! However we have strategies in place to deal with situation as they arise. Most of these are effective. ie reduce their free time on fri afternoons by 5 minutes each time they do something really out of order (this is very effective).

For those pupils who totally distract the class by chatting over the teacher and who wont sit and listen, they are removed from the class and sent to the head teacher.

But no matter how much a pupil disrupts the class, even if they up turn a chair or throw something(happens sometimes) we would never tape their mouth or physcially touch them as we are not allowed and i know i would be instantly dismissed if I did.

If the teachers i work with couldnt control the class anymore, then i would question their abilities as a teacher. This situation that has occurred didnt just happen today as im sure the situation has probably been growing bigger and bigger over days or weeks until the teacher flipped.

They should have gone to the head with their concerns earlier and got it dealt with long before this happened. I know we dont have the full details yet but this is my opinion.

Regarding children who have no respect for the teachers, I have to say that these children come from homes where they seem to do what they like. They are up all hours on social networking sites, the parents often leave these kids on their own whilst they pop out to the pub. They are allowed to play games for 18+ when they are only 9 or 10. When a child once told me about this great game they had played on their xbox, i said oh surely not that is a grown up game for 18+(vICE CITY NO LESS) they were 8 years old. They said their dad lets them, its not that bad!!!

So in a lot of cases i do blame the parents as they dont seem to have the skill or knowledge on how to bring up their children and teach them respect.

When i was at school in the 60's, we called our teachers sir or mrs. We never cheeked them as we knew it wasnt right because our parents had taught us to respect out elders.

There are those of you who will say" yes but this is 2014". Well so what ,manners do not change or go out of fashion do they?

Enough said
Florence
in the hebrides :-|

Again, we do not know the actual facts so in some ways none of us are qualified to comment.

If it was a "red mist" event then that should flag up the fact that the teacher concerned may need some support.

Teachers have to put up with a lot - not just verbal abuse but incidents such as being set fire to, punched, personal possessions stolen etc etc

I think many of us would find it a real strain on our self-control to ignore things like that.

I so agree Errol! Sharron your post at 11.39am sums up why so many children grow up unsuitable for the working world!! Unable to conform, challenging everything they are asked to do and wanting the world to change to suit them. We ALL have to conform in some ways for society to work and we need to learn this as children. I think that is a generalisation to say that most adults don't toe the line or give respect that isn't earned and is not a reason for accepting that kind of behaviour in children. Being an adult is to show respect whether or not it is earned and set a good example.

I have a teacher friend who says they regularly have to change nappies at a primary school.........paid a teacher's wage for changing nappies.......what a waste of taxpayers money. I accept that there may be a health reason for this for a few children, but it is a regular occurrence nowadays and happens in many schools and again it is because of parents not playing their part in bringing their children up. I am still quite shocked at how many primary school children are being excluded these days because of their behaviour........it was unheard of when I was a child.

I don't think that taping childrens' mouths was a right thing to do, but I think some teachers must be at their wits end. It isn't fair to the children who behave and want to learn either, having to put up with the noise and problems from disruptive children. It must be quite intimidating but who is considering them and the detrimental effect on their education?

You're not just a good cook Kitty you're also a great children look-er-after-er :-D

That's what rang the alarm bells Joeva, the number of children and retaping several of them.

Well said KittytheLearner Cook,

The headmaster of this school sent a letter to parents stating that it was an ' unacceptable incident.'... so, we should assume that he knows more than we do...

It is alleged that the teacher lined up 20 children and taped up their mouths and even did it again to those that pulled off the tape.....

If this is so I would think that there was nothing 'lighthearted' about it or in a 'red mist' moment that may have involved just one of the children...

Whether we hear the outcome of this remains to be seen.

The teacher was out of order and earns a suspension if she taped up just one child's mouth, let alone most of the class.

I work with large classes, a few children are difficult to manage at times.

Their parents are mostly very supportive and work hand in hand with the school to improve the behavioral issues, so blaming every child with issues on their parents is unfair on those who try really hard to resolve the problems.

We aren't perfect parents, like everyone else we have made mistakes along the way, but were lucky to have children who were almost always well behaved at school.

When they weren't and came home telling us they were told off about something, we reinforced the reprimand and made sure to go in the next morning to hear the other side of the story.

I think the vast majority of teachers realise that and do a fine job under very difficult circumstances.

The fact remains that there is often a serious lack of parents facing up to the basic requirements - due in part to the fact that they have themselves been brought up in a society where values have dropped and it is always "someone else's fault".

Parents are all too often very quick to blame teachers when they should instead be looking inwardly. Teachers are there to teach subjects, not take on the rôle of parents who are either too lazy or too dim to realise that as a parent they should be teaching core values that will equip young people with the tools they need to get on in life.

A good parent doesnt make a good child.

Would anyone want to revert to times when it was the norm to cane or slipper school children?there other human methods that work and have a greater impact.

That is the crux of the matter Brenda. Children want to learn but they need it to be their learning not the teachers teaching.

The respect follows the learning.

Hayley...I always thought that working class people always had better manners than rich ones..we always said that as in my day there was no money to give us all we would have liked...but we were happy.

I agree with Errol that it is the political system we are against..that is why in every aspect in the workplace compensation culture is to blame in so many cases.

As regards teaching...I used to teach piano..not in a school,but privately,and teachers have to learn to come to the level of the pupil and have lots of patience..so all the knowledge in the world in your own head does not make a good teacher unless you can make sure your pupils understand.

Those are the teachers who are respected..doesn't matter by what method as long as it works.

Kay I totally agree and tried to say earlier that we may not know the whole or real story.

It sells copy!

That is a problem which should be addressed in the home.

If children are not taught to conform at home how on earth can they be expected to conform when they are at school?

I didn't say that children genuinely know their rights.

The media in this case are only reporting one side of this case,,,,,,,,how do we what caused the situation with this class of juniors,,,,,,,it may have been all done in a lighthearted way and reports back to mum and dad have blown it all out of proportion,

Children are no longer expected to conform to the situation they are presented with in school. They are not being prepared for a life where they need to conform and they do know their rights as children have never known before, indeed as no individuals have known before.

Adults no longer toe the line and show respect that has not been earned.

Power has shifted in society, it is expressed in a different way.

Our education system was implemented to teach that one individual would have power over a number of others and that it was right that they should. This is no longer so.