General Chat

"If it wasn't for the social life and friends I wouldn't bother with school"

A child has just said this on the television programme about Chinese teachers going into an English school.

It says it all really.

Oh how we have got it so wrong!

.......so we base all our opinions of today's children on the comment of one?
The majority of these 'reality' programmes (apart from being cheap TV) are skewed to a particular view.
Remember 'Benefits Street'?
Remember how Derby Road in Southampton wasn't willing to be another victim of a biased 'reality' format ('Immigration Street')?

Nope I base it on what I hear from today's children day in day out - believe me, the kids depicted in that programme were like angels compared to the majority of schools I have experienced over the past 12 months.

But those who watched the programme would presume that was the 'general' view.
I support teachers, but sometimes it's very difficult.
My grand daughter, when she was 12, had to do a project with another classmate. She (as were the rest of the class) was discussing what they were going to do, with her partner, when the teacher told her to 'Stop chatting up the boys and get on with her work'.
The boy she was chatting to was the classmate she was doing the project with. A boy she had known since primary school, a mate, a pal, not a 'boyfriend' or potential boyfriend. My grand daughter was not only horrified at this presumption, she immediately sussed out the teacher wasn't up to much.
The teacher had instantly sexualised their relationship, through pure ignorance.
Why didn't she ask what they were talking about first? Why did she assume it was a 'chatting up' session?
No doubt my grand daughter would be classed as the 'wrong' one - how dare she have male friends that she can work with on an intellectual level!! :-|

When my grand daughter told me what had happened, I thought about it from both sides (I went to uni as a mature student, and came across quite a few Bed students), and have been a LSA in both primary and Secondary schools, and tried to explain it away as a stressed teacher - but the teacher should not have reacted in such a stereotypical/lazy way.
Treat everyone like sh*t, you'll get it back!!

Surely that is a very specific incident.

A specific incident that happens a lot - believe me, as a LSA, I've seen teachers show little respect, but for some reason, expect respect.

My grand daughter now has little respect for that teacher, and both her mum and I stress how difficult a teacher's job is.
Wade in feet first - end up in the muck.

This grand daughter (now 13) was talking to me the other day, and was giving the 'teenage gesticulation' they do.
I was watching her as I listened, when she suddenly said 'sorry granny'
I asked 'what for', she said 'this' - gesticulating like she had been doing.
Apparently, my face had shown disapproval!! 'No problem' was my reply. 'Do you do all that at school, when you're talking to a teacher?'
'Some of them' was her reply.
'You mean the ones who don't show disapproval?' I asked
'Yes - the useless ones' she replied.
She loves to learn, she wants to learn - and obviously can read people quite well, and dislikes teachers who can't control - because she knows that ruins her education.

What is the teenage gesticulation?

All sharp gesticulating hands around the mouth and rolling eyes (I think) :-D

basically, a lot of unnecessary!!

I sort of noticed it, but obviously the brain noticed more than my consciousness noticed, hence the face noticed by my grand daughter and the apology.
I (and my sister) have a problem in that our mouths say one thing, but our faces show what we really think. We cannot lie.

If that is the most teenagers do then great - my experience is that they do far more than that

It can appear rude - bit like Lauren 'Am I bovvered'?
And no, it's not the most, or worst they can do. I know it's a case of not showing fear sometimes.
I had one 14 year old tell me I was 'safe' at school, but what about at home?
As I walked away, I thanked him. He asked 'What for.'
I replied 'For letting me know where to send the police if anything happens around my house'
He said 'you don't know where I live'
'No' I said - 'Just off to the office to find out'.....

That boy sought me out every lesson we were in together.
He had a learning disability that had been ignored. (finance-and he was apparently 'rough' and a bully)
Every lesson we shared, I gave him a copy of the lesson plan I had done for the Downs Syndrome girl I was looking after. They helped each other. He learnt that everyone (including himself) was worth caring about, and that Downs Syndrome children weren't to be bullied.
Mind you with 30+ children in a class, for the teacher, caring, or even noticing one, is difficult.

As a qualified teacher I am sure that you recognise that things have changed in recent years.

In a classroom environment, as I am sure you are aware, it can be very intimidating in certain, if not most (for the teacher) circumstances.

I'm not a qualified teacher, but I do have a BA in Educatin Studies, and many years as a LSA
I am aware of intimidating circumstances in the classroom, but that's more reason not to become prey to the lowest common denominator.
There are tactics that can be deployed.
I have to admit, whilst doing my degree, I wasn't too impressed with the BEd students (I was doing a BA(Hons) ). They seemed to take it as the 'easy' option.
Class sizes in state schools are too big - usually30+.
Private schools have an average of 12, maximum of 16 - much more manageable.
And there are some cr*p teachers and 'professionals' out there.
My grandsons are both 'tongue tied', The elder has a lisp, the younger had trouble with a lot of letters.
He went to a speech therapist, who said he had a 'concentration' problem, and suggested my daughter played with him more.
He had no 'concentration' problem - he was 3 and was bored with her 'lessons'.
I had him for 3 weekends on the trot and made him use sentences starting with the letters he had a problem with - we all had to do it.
It was a game, and a laugh.
Within 3 months, as he grew, he could talk properly. No-one in the family had any doubt he would be able to talk 'properly' - he was aware of his problem - by the time he started school, but 'professionals' decided he should be able to do it in X number of months, so the family 'fast forwarded' his ability. Did him no favours at the time, though.

Your family aside, because as I am sure you will agree, it is very easy to bring in personal opinions and personalise debates, the point of this thread is the programme and the fact that it highlights how a "normal" classroom is today.

I run a group for very ordinary teenagers in a very ordinary town.

This week the four 18 years olds in my youth drama group will be getting their A level results. All 4 of them have university places waiting if their results are good enough. The two sixteen year olds expect to go on to sixth form college. The 17 years olds are already at sixth form college.

This year three former members of the group graduated from university and 2 of them will begin teacher training in September. One will be going on to do a MSc degree and the other has found employment. Others are at university. Some are working. Several of them are now teachers.

3 of the group spent last summer in Africa teaching English to and working alongside teenagers in Africa and have been raising money to build a school in the village. The younger ones are on GCSE courses and expect to do ok. These are the young people you don't see on TV they just get their heads down and get on with it. What they have that some of their classmates don't are supportive parents and stable family backgrounds.

I don't work in schools any more but I know a lot of people who do and they are proud of the work they do.

Children learn their attitudes from their parents. They are in school for far less hours than they are at home. I spent the latter part of my teaching career working with children with challenging behaviour. Yes, they can be very intimidating and they can, occasionally, be violent but there are reasons for why they are as they are, in most cases.

Schools are not failing our children, society is failing our children and parents are failing their children. If parents and the wider population don't value education then their children are not likely to either. If parents don't accept some responsibility for the bad behaviour of their children then there isn't a lot that schools can do, but they will keep trying.

Of course there are bad teachers and sometimes good teachers get it wrong. Bad teachers tend to not last long, teaching isn't well paid enough for them to persevere in a job that gives them no satisfaction. Good teachers learn from their mistakes. Teaching is still a vocation for many and they deserve our support.

I'm very, very old but I can remember what my schooldays were like and we had a lot of "attitude" in school then. But, usually, if we were in trouble at school then our parents backed up the school and didn't go storming in defending their offspring and saying they were being picked on.

If parents see no hope for their own future and are struggling in poverty it is hard for them to feel hope for their children. Teachers try to pick up the pieces.

Putting public school educated idiots like Gove, with no idea of what real schools are like, in charge is not the way to solve the problem. Most teenagers are lovely under the skin.

...so your opinions and thoughts aren't from experience then, Errol?
....and the programme wasn't at all biased?

Guinevere does have a point.

In addition, It's the minority students with a poor attitude which taint opinion about the majority. However, a teacher with poor management skills does not gain their respect. No respect equals disruptive behaviour.
Added - it doesn't matter if the students are average to low ability, or in the top 25%.


A small number of students are well aware of their 'rights'. Unfortunately they have not been informed of their 'responsibilities'. If their behaviour results in others not learning, they have removed the 'rights' of their classmates to be educated.

Children/students have different learning styles. A one size fits all approach doesn't work.

Saying that anybody who has been educated at a public school is idiotic.
Michael Gove is not an idiot far from it.
State schools vary a lot in quality from the horrendous to top notch. Overall though some sort of boring mediocrity appears to be the target.
Given the hack down the tall poppy attitude of the LEAs, the NUT and those dire esta lishments teaching colleges (unis now ?) it is hardly surprising. Trouble is our education system is poor, boring and out of touch. It fails to support children witb social and learning problems, preferring exclusion, while the brightest are not stretched or encouraged.
The only person in the present govt who cares a button is M Gove.
Arguing a point by generalising from the particular is very poor logic though popular with the press, ch5 and BBCTV.

I agree with both Guinevere and Det, especially about the 'one size not fitting all'.
Many 'problem' children just aren't academic, so effectively spend 5 years wasting their lives, and very frustrated. These children were why technical schools were introduced in the past, then closed with the demise of the Grammar School and introduction of the comprehensive, which was meant to cater for all abilities, but, with the introduction of league tables was soon 'rated' on exam results, rather than general education.
I was horrified at the number of children I found at secondary school who essentially should have received extra help in primary school - but didn't.
Their grasp of reading was not adequate for what they had to learn in secondary school - and by then it was too late.

Only an idiot would attempt some of the changes Gove wanted, so he is an idiot, in my opinion. His own PM reined him in so he must agree to a certain extent.

"Given the hack down the tall poppy attitude of the LEAs, the NUT and those dire esta lishments teaching colleges (unis now ?) it is hardly surprising."

Just not true. Making things up is daft.

You are wrong in almost everything you said, Rollo. Well, for schools around here you are. I can't speak for where you live.

Maggie, I was a victim of grammar school education and I made sure my son went to a good comp. Where he did exceedingly well.

The problems within primary schools come when "experts" introduce new ways of learning against the advice of teachers. ITA was a total failure. The powers that be also decreed that we should teach all manner of other things in school so the basics suffered. They still do.

Children used to come into schools able to dress themselves, use a toilet, sit and listen and use a knife and fork. They usually knew their colours and their numbers and knew how to hold a pencil. Nowadays many can't.