General Chat

Ah, ok.......no worries. I get it now!

:-)

PricklyHolly:::

Sorry for the confusion, no idea why I put 1903 instead of 1863.

Must have been tired !!

Born 1863, Frederick Swinton, Alijahs Brother. This could point towards the theory that Alijahs dead brothers nane when he went down to London. Shelia,one of the members
found the record shown below ::::::::
Shirley~I,m getting the hang of it Report 4 Feb 2016 07:59
Looks like he had a brother Frederick who died

FREDERICK WILLIAM
Last name SWINTON
Birth year 1863
Death year 1866
Age 3
Burial year 1866
Burial day 20
Burial month 5
Place BILLINGHAY
Church description ST MICHAEL
Church denomination ANGLICAN
County Lincolnshire
Country England
Record set National Burial Index for England & Wales
Category Birth, Marriage, Death & Parish Records
Subcategory Deaths & burials
Collections from Great Britain
Lincolnshire Family History Society

Perhaps he took on the name as a cover when he went to london

Who is Alijah/Fredericks 1903?

Shirley:::: Thanks for the ifo about the birth of Alijah/Fredericks 1903. I haven't found that information on any other sites.
Cheers

Prickly Holly and Detective:::

Many thanks for all the research you have shared with me. Its taken me 3 hours to add to my tree and its been worth it. Some of the information I knew nothing about. Especially the immigration records, they led on to more names etc.

Will give me a bit more of a chance to trace the grandchildren now.

Happy researching :-D

Of course. ;-)

Charles Stanley Swinton in the England & Wales, National Probate Calendar (Index of Wills and Administrations), 1858-1966
Name: Charles Stanley Swinton
Probate Date: 23 Oct 1961
Registry: Nottingham, England
Death Date: 21 May 1961
Death Place: Nottingham, England

Of 41 Canal Street, Nottingham.

To Bernard Swinton engineer and Frank Henry Deane tobacconists manager.

Effects: £761 8s 9d

(Andrew, Beryl and family stayed at the Lincoln Arms, Canal Street, Nottingham when they visited in 1960)


Frank Henry Deane was a son from Mary's first marriage.


Births Jun 1910 (>99%)
DEANE Frank Henry Nottingham 7b 460


Frank Henry Deane in the 1911 England Census
Name: Frank Henry Deane
Age in 1911: 7/12
Estimated Birth Year: abt 1910
Relation to Head: Son
Gender: Male
Birth Place: Nottingham, England
Civil Parish: Nottingham

County/Island:
Nottinghamshire
Country: England
Street address:5 Navarino Terrace
Registration district: Nottingham
Sub-registration district: Nottingham North West

Household Members:

Henry James Deane 20
Mary Lizzie Deane 20
Frank Henry Deane 7/12

Ummm.. PH?
Unless evidence proves otherwise, the 'children' on the passenger list are probably still living. Fancy removing the Day of birth?? ;-)

It seems Bernard had a sister Beryl who ended up in Canada.


Births Mar 1925 (>99%)
Swinton Beryl Atkinson Nottingham 7b 561

Beryl Swinton in the England & Wales, Marriage Index, 1916-2005
Name: Beryl Swinton
Spouse Name: Andrew L Trimba
Date of Registration: Oct-Nov-Dec 1942
Registration district: Nottingham
Inferred County: Nottinghamshire
Volume Number: 7b
Page Number: 715


Looking at passenger lists, the birth of a daughter in 1944 and one in 1949.... and deaths........Andrew's surname was actually "Trimble"



Beryl Trimble in the UK, Incoming Passenger Lists, 1878-1960
Name: Beryl Trimble
Birth Date: 6 Jan 1925
Age: 30
Port of Departure: Montréal, Québec, Canada
Arrival Date: 11 May 1955
Port of Arrival:Liverpool, England
Ports of Voyage: Montreal
Ship Name: Empress of Australia

Beryl Trimble...... Housewife ...Address in UK...C/O .Mrs Swirton (Probably Swinton) 195 Arkwright Street, Nottingham.
Andrew Lynn Trimble (Lynn A Trimble on birth Reg)
Andrea Elizabeth Trimble


Andrew I Trimble in the UK, Incoming Passenger Lists, 1878-1960
Name: Andrew I Trimble
Birth Date: 21 Aug 1922
Age: 37
Port of Departure: St John, New Brunswick, Canada
Arrival Date: 25 Mar 1960
Port of Arrival: Liverpool, England
Ports of Voyage: St John
Ship Name: Empress of France

Andrew L Trimble Oil Field Driller
Lynn A Trimble Student
Beryl Trimble 06/01/25 Hosewife
Andrea E Trimble

Address in UK......Lincoln Arms, Canal Street, Nottingham.

There are several other passenger lists for Andrew and Beryl.

Andrew Trimble in the Web: Alberta, Index to Cemeteries, 1823-2013
Name: Andrew Trimble
Birth Year: 1923
Death Year: 2001
Burial Place: Calgary, Alberta, Canada
Cemetery: Queens Park
Notes: W
http://www.afhs.ab.ca/data/cem...

Beryl Trimble in the Web: Alberta, Index to Cemeteries, 1823-2013
Name: Beryl Trimble
Birth Year: 1925
Death Year: 2002
Burial Place: Calgary, Alberta, Canada
Cemetery: Queens Park
Notes: W
http://www.afhs.ab.ca/data/cem...

Not sure if anyone has sent you the image - one now as attachment in your 'in-box'. Better duplicates than none at all!

I wonder if this is Bernard's death.......

??

Name: Bernard Stanley Swinton
Birth Date: 3 May 1917
Date of Registration: Dec 2000
Age at Death: 83
Registration district: Glamorgan
Inferred County: Glamorgan
Register Number: D13A
District and Subdistrict: 8911D
Entry Number: 25

In case you haven't figured it out Sandra........here is the connection........

Charles Stanley Swinton born 1892 (Son of Ahijah and Ada Mary (Witty) Swinton) married in 1916


Marriages Dec 1916 (>99%)
Deane Mary L Swinton Nottingham 7b 644
Swinton Charles S Deane Nottingham 7b 644

Mary Deane had been married before.......


Marriages Dec 1909 (>99%)
ATKINSON Mary Elizabeth Nottingham 7b 828 (I'm thinking Elizabeth should be Lizzie?)
DEANE James Henry Nottingham 7b 828


Son Bernard's birth was registered under Mary's maiden name.......

Bernard Swinton in the England & Wales, Birth Index, 1916-2005
Name: Bernard Swinton
Mother's Maiden Surname: Atkinson
Date of Registration: Apr-May-Jun 1917
Registration district: Nottingham
Inferred County: Nottinghamshire, Derbyshire
Volume Number: 7b
Page Number: 562


He married with the middle initial "S"......


Marriages Mar 1943 (>99%)
Swinton Bernard S Thompson Nottingham 7b 593
Thompson Bridget E Swinton Nottingham 7b 593

You can check out the births of their children on this free site......

http://www.freebmd.org.uk/


Bernard Swinton in the UK, Outward Passenger Lists, 1890-1960
Name: Bernard Swinton
Gender: Male
Age: 32
Birth Date: abt 1917
Departure Date: 28 May 1949
Port of Departure: Southampton, England
Destination Port: New York, USA
Ship Name: Queen Mary
Shipping line: Cunard White Star Limited
Official Number: 164282
Master: G E Cove

Bernard Swinton 32 Engineer (Last Address in UK: 20 Tipeston Road, Nottingham)
Marcel Swinton 3 Child


Births Sep 1926 (>99%)
Thompson Bridget E Leman Nottingham 7b 608


Bridget Swinton in the UK, Outward Passenger Lists, 1890-1960
Name: Bridget Swinton
Gender: Female
Age: 23
Birth Date: abt 1926
Departure Date: 7 Oct 1949
Port of Departure: Southampton, England
Destination Port: New York, USA
Ship Name: Washington
Shipping line: United States Lines
Official Number: 232210
Master: Harold Milde

Bridget Swinton 23 H'Wife (Last Address in UK: 20 Olkeston Road, Nottingham)
David Swinton 5
Bridget Swinton 1

Re: Mary Atkinson.......

??

Births Mar 1892 (>99%)
Atkinson Mary Lizzie Bingham 7b 419



Deaths Mar 1967 (>99%)
Mary L Swinton in the England & Wales, Death Index, 1916-2007
Name: Mary L Swinton
Birth Date: abt 1893
Date of Registration: Mar 1967
Age at Death: 74
Registration district: Nottingham
Inferred County: Nottinghamshire
Volume: 3c
Page: 275


Charles S Swinton in the England & Wales, Death Index, 1916-2007
Name: Charles S Swinton
Birth Date: abt 1892
Date of Registration: Jun 1961
Age at Death: 69
Registration district: Nottingham
Inferred County: Nottinghamshire
Volume: 3c
Page: 371

One thing to note is that his first name was 'Ahijah' not 'Elijah'. Both his Birth and Death Registrations refer to him as 'Ahijah' which is an actual name.

someone else will have to see if they can clip it for you

I found it on FMP, which of course is where GR gets its records from


The gist of it is ..............

Mrs Carl Olson is manageress of a lounge in a skyscraper hotel, and is going to decorate it with interior photographs of Nottingham pubs.

She was a Miss Davis lived at 20 Ilkeston Road, Nottingham before emigrating to marry a GI ca 1947. Her brother Malcolm Davis joined her about 18 months before the date of the article.

He was then followed by their mother, father and 10 year old brother Pat.

Next were "her brother-in-law Mr Swinton and his son Marcel, aged three."

With Mrs Swinton on the SS Washington when it sails on October 7 will be her children, David 5 and Bridget, 12 months

I have just found this in Genes Reunited. Marcel and his Dad Bernard are Grandson and great grandson of Alijah Swinton. I can't access it, I'm subscribed to Myheritage and Newspaper Archives, but nothing on there. Would appreciate it anyone could open it . Many thanks


Nottingham Evening Post
Nottingham Evening Post Nottinghamshire, England
16 Sep 1949

A TOUCH OF NOTTINGHAM IN CHICAGO
and father and 10 year-old brother Pat flew to America. Next to cross the Atlantic were her brother-in-law, Mr. Swinton, and his son Marcel, aged three. Her sister, Mrs. Swmton, will complete the family ermgration when she sails on the s.s. Washington

View article Type: Article

Detective:: that is the puzzling bit, the newspapers and the Old Bailey report never mention the name (Elijah).
It seems to point that they may be one and the same, but who knows.
Unfortunately, many of his descendants are no longer with us. It may be one of those unsolved mysteries

Sandra

Having read the Old Bailey transcript, it seems that quite a lot has been omitted. For instance, one of the papers quoted last night says that he had abandoned his wife and family in Nottingham. If that came out during the Court proceedings, it hasn't been transcribed.

If Frederick *was* an alias, then he stuck to his story. The Courts would have charged him under both names. Similarly, he'd have been recorded on the Prison Roll under his known birth name. It would appear that he said he was Frederick, and that's the name used throughout.

The full trial records, were ever they are held, might shed more light, but its unlikely.

Sandra ..................

I read the records from the Old Bailey ............ just click on the link and read them for yourself!

It is a free site.

Wow, such a lot of information members have found. I wonder if he did use his deceased brothers name when he went to London, then reverted back to Elijah when he returned home! but then he returned to London, as he died there. I wonder of it is possible to find out from the Old Bailey records if he did use a false name. I have traced his grandchildren, but they hace now died. I need to find their offspring. Many thanks foe everyone who has taken the time to do all the research on this. I would love it if Frederick and Elijah are one and the same!

Regards
Sandra

First name(s) CHARLES S
Last name SWINTON
Gender Male
Birth day -
Birth month -
Birth year 1892
Age 69
Death quarter 2
Death year 1961
District NOTTINGHAM
County Nottinghamshire
Volume 3C
Page 371
Country England

First name(s) HAROLD J
Last name SWINTON
Gender Male
Birth day -
Birth month -
Birth year 1890
Age 73
Death quarter 1
Death year 1963
District LEICESTER
County Leicestershire
Volume 3A
Page 801
Country England

First name(s) ETHEL MARY
Last name SWINTON
Birth year 1893
Birth quarter 4
Registration month -
Mother's last name -
District NOTTINGHAM
County Nottinghamshire
Country England
Volume 7B
Page 385
Record set England & Wales births 1837-2006


First name(s) ETHEL M
Last name SWINTON
Marriage quarter 1
Marriage year 1914
Registration month -
MarriageFinder™ ETHEL M SWINTON married
LESLIE M SEWARD
Spouse's last name SEWARD
District NOTTINGHAM
District number -
County Nottinghamshire
Country England
Volume 7B
Page 449

?????
First name(s) ETHEL M
Last name SEWARD
Gender Female
Birth day -
Birth month -
Birth year 1893
Age 34
Death quarter 1
Death year 1927
District HAMMERSMITH
County London
Volume 1A
Page 395
Country England

several children for ethel


Births Sep 1914 (>99%)
Seward Ethel A Swinton Nottingham 7b 800

Births Mar 1916 (>99%)
Seward Winifred N Swinton Nottingham 7b 634

Births Dec 1921 (>99%)
Seward Phyllis Swinton Nottingham 7b 641

Births Jun 1923 (>99%)
Seward Ronald Swinton Nottingham 7b 546

wonder if any of his childrens descendants know the story