General Chat

Just a question because I haven't really heard anyone give a straight answer ...

What is it that the out campaigners think Britain will be able to do that it can't do now?

In other words what do you personally think you are being 'stopped' from doing? and is what you think you are being 'stopped' from doing worth losing set against the benefits you have got from being in the EU?

These are some of the things that the "leave" group believe would be a Very Good Thing. They may or may not be true.

1. The UK would be able to make more favorable trade agreements with China, USA, India etc. Possibly cheap lamb and butter chirp cheep? TTIP would go through exactly as US big business wants it too,, anything else, nailed down or not, could be sold to the Chinese ...

2. The EU, desperate for UK business, would offer a tax free trade agreement, no need to comply with CE standards (bring back the kitemark).

3. All those pesky johnny foreigners could be given their marching orders. That around half of foreign immigrants are not of EU origin seems to have attracted little comment recently except for the possible deportation of a 90 year old SAfrican lady. Brits should not want to work with our enemies in the EU. They will be able instead to trade all over the world. They do so already? Really?

4. No more "Human Rights" and all that nonsense about justice, elf n safety etc etc.

5. No more obediance to the false cause of climate change. Instead we will have even more grouse moors, golf courses, diesel fueled power stations, Chinese nuclear plant, more Chelsea tractors.

6. Skilled Brits who don't like it will be welcome to push off. That they are already doing so in their tens of thousands is something the leave crowd prefer to ignore.

7. No more dark Scandinavian and French TV on Channel4 which is to be sold of to Murdoch. Without any interference from EU competition authority such deals will be much easier.

8. We will win eurovision.

Those with substantial assets ( over £ 1 million excluding house ) and household income > £ 100 K would be likely to do well. Everyone else wod notice a very marked drop in living standards which for those on min wage (dying wage?) would be catastrophic. It already is in London.

BUT WE WOULD BE FREE RAH RAH RAH

maybe not

For somebody who has been perched uncomfortably on the fence, this has been a very illuminating thread so thanks to all who have put their views. Particularly Rollo and Rose, lots of food for thought there. :-) Not quite so confused now.

In the beginning we had the kingdom of West Kent, the kingdom of East Kent, the East Saxons, the West Saxons, the Middle Saxons, the South Folk, the North Folk, the fatness of Mercia, the fastness of Northrumbia ... aall having a go at each other, all vying for supremacy all suffering from being screwed by continental merchants who knew far better than the English how to build ships. By Alfred's day the knowhow had entirely been lost.

And then, pouncing down on England like a wolf and swoop down like an eagle, the Danes rent the kingdom apart going thither and thather as they would wont harvesting gold and fair damsels. To underline the point Rollo occupied all of northern France which he named Normandy. Just about as soon as the English had recovered their independence the grandson of Rollo, the bastard son of a tanner's daughter invaded and once more the English would be subjugated. The current ruling house claims descent from the tanner's daughter.

And so here we are a thousand years later huddled together with a bunch of proud "independent" nations on the European peninsula of Asia. To the east lies thousand of miles of hostile terriitory run by an increasingly hostile Russia and acquisative Chinese.

"We must, indeed, all hang together or, most assuredly, we shall all hang separately." B. Franklin

I do not agree with Ms T May about much but on the matter of national security she is bang on the button.

There have been so many lies told about membership of the EU over the years that people quote them as fact.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Euromyth

http://news.sky.com/story/1266181/the-top-10-european-union-myths-debunked

I'm not sure what can be done about stupid people believing BS.

There's a rational and informative debate to be had but I doubt we'll get it once the Tory press have decided which way they want to go.

"In 2005 it was reported that bagpipes would be banned under new EU noise pollution laws which would not allow noises louder than 87 decibels. "

why not?
this foul and false instrument should be replaced with the Northumbrian pipes

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=HiuMwskhsGk

:-D

I'm thinking that if the politicians from all parties are coming up with something different - some for and some against, what chance have we of coming to the right conclusion

AnnC, we have to decide what we, as individuals, think is 'right' for the UK. It doesn't help that both sides are scare-mongering.

The same way we always have Ann, you read all the arguments for and against, 'biased' and unbiased,and come to your own conclusion. :-D

Or you could go with the much less rigorous 'process of elimination', eg if Gove ( and his little mate Murdoch) , Farage and IDS, all of whom I despise, particularly IDS for his scornful treatment of the disabled and ill, are all for coming out, I might feel it in my gut that staying in is the better option :-)

Of course I would always recommend the first course of action :-)

hmm - gonna ask Supercrutch what she's doing - I'll do the same as her

Those who don't normally vote in other elections for one reason or another - do they have an opinion they would like to share with us? You never know what the rest of us might do on hearing their views.

Don't be shy! :-S

OUT as I didn't vote IN during the 1975 referendum.

As I have experienced the utter waste of money implementing useless EU directives which only benefit other countries who pushed for them I despair.

One aspect which is always kept under wraps is that the good old UK adhere to these dictats and spend billions during the initial phase. After anything between 6 and 12 months the rules are abolished or relaxed.

The smart members didn't bother imposing the new regulations in their countries and laughed their socks off when the reverse gear was an option.

In the time during which the UK government were telling those affected that they had to implement the new rules or face sanctions those who had business interests in those sectors affected spent millions from their working capital or secured loans.
They are then informed that a new deal had been struck and the UK could opt out or the rules had found their way out of some obscure Brussels window onto the pavement below.

Too late for the businesses who now find themselves faced with downsizing or closure.

Fair trade? Nope!

European Arrest Warrant is a joke as is the cry of our security will be compromised.

There is nothing in Cameron's deal that would guarantee the EU would stop their meddling and they are quietly laughing up their collective sleeves.

I do not like Gove but his incisive article should give everyone food for thought.

Just my opinion of course.

right - it's OUT for me - I was already leaning that way - this has made my mind up - thanks Sue

just penning a letter to Cameron - "Ask Sue" :-D :-D :-D :-D

IN, I was a few months short of being able to vote in 1975.

I would just say, vote for the right reasons, whether you choose in or out, because I have seen a lot of people who don't quite understand that it is not going to catapult us back to some rosy past ( that in most respects never actually existed).

Be prepared to live with your decision if you want out, because once out there will never be an opportunity to get back in.

Happy to live with exiting, nett benefit of leaving £43 million PER DAY.

Manufacturing died in the UK long ago, the financial sector will not suffer (as threatened) Banks will leave the UK whether we are IN or OUT.

UK has many entrepreneurs and they will still thrive, investment in new start ups will be available and not the ridiculous EU funded start ups which are doomed from day one because those granted the funds strip out the grants within 12 months and close down. That's the case in Wales.... how many call centres do you think a small Principality can sustain?

I can vividly remember saying in 1975 "goodbye Commonwealth trade". We would be free to negotiate new trade deals and talk of imposing taxes for non EU (viz the UK) imports into the EU works both ways.

I could say a lot more but people will be nodding off.

Sue

Just a few thoughts?

"£43 million a day"

Minus...

The amount needed to police our end of the channel tunnel because the French won't be policing their end anymore, probably just the opposite.

The amount needed to support all those who will lose their jobs,

The amount needed to put into start-ups etc to replace the jobs lost and the amount needed to re-train the workers from the above mentioned lost jobs.

The amount needed to subsidise the increased cost of living and current and increased levels of low pay until Britain becomes a 'power house of industry'. and has the place at the top of the tree it once held, again ....

And even supposing that was all viable and we did decide to go it alone as such ( and supposing NONE of the aspects of being in the EU for the last 30 years have benefited us) it would be a good few years before reconstucting industry, trade agreements etc bought forth results ( and who would suffer in the meantime I ask...rhetorical question) ...and, at least in the short term, we would have the same people making the same decisions, eg cutting disability benefits, seeking to abolish attendance allowance, underfunding the NHS, wasting money on redundant and exorbitantly expensive 'projects' which never make the money back, etc.

I can't say I think this money will be spent more wisely in the hands of the likes of IDS and Gove, who would undoubtedly claim the kudos for coming out, and would undoubtedly make themselves available to be the next PM when Cameron creeps out?

And what of the other things that are not financial? those things decided in the EU that DO benefit us?

I had to smile the other day on the news they were speaking to a guy who worked at Siemens. He thought it might be best if he voted 'Out'.

Did he give his reasons IGP? Thinking the grass is hopefully greener maybe?



plus ça change, plus c’est la même chose.

Bursts into a spontaneous chorus of

"The other man's grass is always greener,
the sun shines brighter on the other side..." Petula Clark?

It's all Rollo's fault, I had to find something other than 'Chirpy Chirpy' and 'Union Silver' to run through my head ;-)