General Chat

a possible who might match Sylvia's 1861 Charles, in 1851


Name: Charles Mortimore
Age: 3
Estimated birth year: abt 1848
Relation: Visitor
Gender: Male
Where born: London, Middlesex, England
Civil Parish: Holborn St Andrew
Ecclesiastical parish: Trinity
County/Island: Middlesex
Country: England

Elizabeth Mortimore 59 charwoman
George Mortimore 18
Eliza Mortimore 18
Mary Ann Mortimore 7 - all from here down are 'visitor', all born 'Mid, London'
Eliza Mortimore 4
Elizabeth Mortimore 9 Mo
> William Mortimore 36 - street sweeper
Elizabeth Mortimore 29 - shoe binder
> Charles Mortimore 3
Caroline Mortimore 7 (it says 1, not 7)


Births Sep 1850
Mortimer Elizabeth Holborn 2 139

Births Jun 1850
Mortimer Caroline Holborn 2 139

so probably the children other than Charles and Caroline do not belong to the William and Elizabeth couple


found that Charles's christening but not a birth reg

https://familysearch.org/ark:/61903/1:1:N1V9-M94

Name Charles Mortimer
Gender Male
Christening Date 21 Jul 1850
Christening Place St. Andrew's, Holborn, Middlesex, England
Father's Name William Mortimer
Mother's Name Elizabeth Mortimer

https://familysearch.org/ark:/61903/1:1:JQLL-YYL

Name Charles Mortimer
Gender Male
Christening Date 21 Jul 1850
Christening Place SAINT ANDREW,HOLBORN,LONDON,ENGLAND
>> Birth Date 28 Jun 1847
Father's Name William Mortimer
Mother's Name Elizabeth

baptised at the same time as Caroline who was born 13 March 1850


if one or both parents had died before 1861, children could have gone to an institution

... ah, but they also christened children in Holborn up to 1869

this is the household in 1861

William Mortimer 44
Elizabeth Mortimer 39
Charle Mortimer 14
Louisa Mortimer 9
George Mortimer 6
Walton Mortimer 4
Elizabeth Hanson 70 aunt

but I lose them in 1871


this is the 1851 household in 1841 (other children in 1851 could have belonged to one of the daughters)

Civil Parish: St Giles in The Fields
Registration district: St Giles
Bull Gate Yard
Elzbth Mortimer 45 ind
> Wm Mortimer 20 lab
Amelia Whitehead 25
Caroline Mortimer 20
Eliza Mortimer 20
George Mortimer 8
Robt Mortimer 3



obviously, I am tending to the 'made up father' theory :-)

possibly, if Charles was born Mortimer with father Mortimer, he was reared with a Mitcham stepfather and adopted his name ...

the other obvious possibility is that he was born Mitcham with mother Mitcham, his father was William Mortimer, and he fabricated the name 'William Mortimer Mitcham' when he married

Thanks for your replies
I do know my mother Rose Mitcham he would have been her grt grandfather
Talked about aunt Harriet and Aggie they lived in St. Pancras.
Don't know if either were married my grandmother married his son also Charles Edward Mortimer. Her Name Ellen Caroline Barratt.

neither can I ......... as you and both thought ............. it looks like a name change of some sort, and maybe a falsified father's name?

I can't see anything for Charles before his 1868 marriage.

I can't see anything for his father either.

Andy

All of the older children were baptised at the same time ............ one is on the next page

Charles Mitcham 11 Jan 1880 Clapton Park All Saints Hackney Charles Mitcham,
Louisa Mitcham

Harriet Louisa Mitcham 11 Jan 1880 Clapton Park All Saints Hackney Charles Mitcham, Louisa Mitcham

Nellie Hannah Mitcham 11 Jan 1880 Clapton Park All Saints Hackney Charles Mitcham, Louisa Mitcham

William James Mitcham 11 Jan 1880 Clapton Park All Saints Hackney Charles Mitcham, Louisa Mitcham


Charles occupation on all of them is "Labourer"

so Agnes and Florence were baptised on the same day, with Charles named as the father .............. which, of course, is who Louisa was married to, and the surname she had legally. However Florence is indicated as having been born in 1876, when all other records indicate 1886 ?????????

London, England, Church of England Births and Baptisms, 1813-1906

Name: Agnes Mitcham
Record Type: Baptism
Baptism Date: 21 May 1893
Father's name: Charles Mitcham
Mother's name: Louisa Mitcham
Parish or Poor Law Union: Oseney Crescent St Luke
Borough: Camden
Register Type: Parish Registers

Name: Florence Mitcham
Record Type: Baptism
Baptism Date: 21 May 1893
Father's name: Charles Mitcham
Mother's name: Louisa Mitcham
Parish or Poor Law Union: Oseney Crescent St Luke
Borough: Camden
Register Type: Parish Registers

from image:-
Address:- 8 Hampshire St

Agnes:- b. 19 May 1882

Florence:- b. 2 Dec 1876


Charles is shown as deceased on both, occupations different ........... but I can't decipher them!

That's rfight, yes

This is her Baptism (I think)


Name:Harriet Louisa Mitcham
Record Type:Baptism
Baptism Date:11 Jan 1880
Father's name:Charles Mitcham
Mother's name:Louisa Mitcham
Parish or Poor Law Union:Clapton Park All Saints
Borough:Hackney
Register Type:Parish Registers

and Nellie and Charles and William at same time.

The address is 3 Arthurs Mews, not the same as 1881 census


Andy

you think this is Harriet's registration, from Freebmd ..........


Births Dec 1869 (>99%)
Mitcham Harriet Louisa Kensington 1a 100

Following on your find, this 1871 record that I found doesn't have any Harriet on it. Again .......... stretching it?

Occupation for both shown as "Army Work"????

1871 Census

Name: Louise Mitchell
Age: 19
Estimated birth year: abt 1852
Relation: Wife
Spouse's Name: Charles Mitchell
Gender: Female
Where born: London, England
Civil Parish: St Mary Magdalen Bermondsey
Ecclesiastical parish: St Mary Magdalen
County/Island: London
Country: England
Registration district: St Olave Southwark
Sub-registration district: Leather Market
ED, institution, or vessel: 12
Household schedule number: 146
Piece: 629
Folio: 77
Page Number: 27

Charles Mitchell 21 b.ca 1859, Northamptonshire <<<<<<!!!! ?????
Louise Mitchell 19


Edit:- NO NO NO .. this couple are together in 1891

Seems Harriet born 1869, I've added the detail to my census post.

Andy

But Harriet wouldn't be on the 1871 Census as she wasn't born until after the census was taken?

I'm trying forward, in the vain hope that there might be clue! ...............

one of the younger children, Florence, is living wither her sister Harriet and brother Charles in 1901

1901 Census

Name: Florence Mitcham
Age: 14
Estimated birth year: abt 1887
Relation to Head: Sister
Gender: Female
Birth Place: St Pancras, London, England
Civil Parish: St Pancras
Search Photos: Search for 'St Pancras' in the UK City, Town and Village Photos collection
Ecclesiastical parish: St Mark
County/Island: London
Country: England

Registration district: St Pancras
Sub-registration district: Regent's Park
ED, institution, or vessel: 14

Piece: 132
Folio: 164
Page Number: 45
Household schedule number: 359

Harriet Mitcham 31 Charwoman
Charles Mitcham 24 Greengrocer's Clerk
Florence Mitcham 14

1871???


Sort of fits....


Name:Louisa Mitchell
Age19
Estimated birth year:abt 1852
Relation:Wife
Spouse's Name:Charles Mitchell
Gender:Female
Where born:
Chelsea, Middlesex, England
Civil Parish:Kensington
Ecclesiastical parish:All Saints
County/Island:London
Country:England
Registration district:Kensington
Sub-registration district:Kensington Town
ED, institution, or vessel:42a
Household schedule number:144
Piece:47
Folio:54
Page Number:26
Household Members:
Name
Age

Charles Mitchell 23
Louisa Mitchell 19
Harriett Mitchell 1


Harriet, Nellie and Charles weren't baptised until 1880, as a job lot. Birth for Harriet is 1869.


Name:
Harriet Louisa Mitcham
Registration Year:1869
Registration Quarter:
Oct-Nov-Dec
Registration district:Kensington
Inferred County:London
Volume:1a
Page:100


Andy

Andy

That's what I'm thinking ........... that's why I looked for Mortimer as the surname :-)

I also cannot find either Louisa or Charles in the 1871 Census ............... which is after their marriage.

I even looked for "louisa" with spouse "Charles" ..... only 160 of them!

Daughter Harriet's birth was registered in March quarter 1872 ........... so no point in looking for her in 1871

Possible??

Surname First name(s) District Vol Page

--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Births Sep 1849 (>99%)
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------

Mitcham Charles Marylebone 1 196


This family? Wrong father, so probably not

James Mitcham 37
Ann Mitcham 35
Ann Mitcham 12
James Mitcham 10
Sarah Mitcham 8
Thomas Mitcham 4
Charles Mitcham 1


Andy


Andy

No earlier sign of him or his father. The more I look the more 'made up name' comes to mind.

Andy

His death record on FMP gives his birth year as 1849, and age 35



Has anyone found him BEFORE his marriage??

I can't even find a birth record with those names.

There is a Charles Mortimer b.ca 1851, London,Pauper, on the 1861 Census ...... that's the closest I've come. He's in the Ipswich Union Workhouse

1861 Census

Name: Charles Mortimer
Age: 10
Estimated birth year: 1851
Relation: Pauper
Gender: Male
Where born: London, England
Civil Parish: Ipswich St Peter
Ecclesiastical parish: Norwich
County/Island: Suffolk
Country: England

Registration district: Ipswich
Sub-registration district: St Matthew
ED, institution, or vessel: Ipswich Union Workhouse

Household schedule number: 1
Piece: 1162
Folio: 92
Page Number: 3

Death for Charles

Surname First name(s) Age District Vol Page

--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Deaths Jun 1884 (>99%)
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------

MITCHAM Charles Edward M 35 Hampstead 1a 442


Wonder who fathered the later children??

Andy

1891

Louisa a widow. More than 4 children!


Name:Louisa Mitcham Age:
39
Estimated birth year:abt 1852
Relation:Head
Gender:Female
Where born:Kensington, London, England
Civil ParishSt Pancras
Ecclesiastical parish:St Luke
County/Island:London
Country:England
Street address:
Occupation:
Condition as to marriage:
Education:
Employment status:
View image
Registration district:Pancras
Sub registration district:Kentish Town
ED, institution, or vessel:51
Neighbors:
View others on page
Piece:140
Folio:64
Page Number:10
Household Members:
Name
Age


Louisa Mitcham 39
Harriet Mitcham 21
Mellie Mitcham 16
Charles Mitcham 14
William Mitcham 11
Agnes Mitcham 8
Florence Mitcham 4
Robert Mitcham 1

Andy

London, England, Church of England Marriages and Banns, 1754-1921


Name:Charles Edward Mortimer Mitcham
Spouse: Louisa Wall
Record Type:Marriage
Event Date:25 Dec 1868
ParishSt Saviour, Paddington
Borough:Westminster
>>>>>>>Father Name:William Mortimer Mitcham
Spouse Father:William Wall
Register Type:Parish Register


Age for both -Full


Andy