General Chat

Ann's correct ..... his father was self-made, Trump benefitted from money his father made by being a dreadful landlord in cewrtain areas of NY. The kind of landlord who raises rents ....... Fred Trump even inspired a song written but never recorded by Woody Guthrie in 1950

https://www.theguardian.com/music/2016/jun/30/old-man-trump-tom-morello-ani-difranco-woody-guthrie

"More than 60 years ago, Woody Guthrie bemoaned his landlord – Donald Trump’s father, Fred Trump – in unrecorded song lyrics. Now a group of artists has turned his writing into a modern protest song as Trump’s son Donald continues his candidacy for US president.
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The elder Trump was Guthrie’s landlord for two years in the 1950s. The public housing complex, named Beach Haven, was built near Coney Island and almost exclusively housed white tenants. (Kaufman described the neighborhood as “lily-white”.) Trump, who built Beach Haven using federal loans, made significant profits from the project.

In 1954, after Guthrie had already moved out, Trump was the subject of a federal investigation for overstating the cost of developing Beach Haven and pocketing the $3.7m difference. A Village Voice investigative series published in 1979 looked at the Trumps’ real estate empire, including the cases brought by the US justice department alleging “racially discriminatory conduct by Trump agents”.

Guthrie’s writings focus in particular on the racial segregation within the housing complex: “I suppose/Old Man Trump knows/Just how much/Racial Hate/he stirred up/In the bloodpot of human hearts/When he drawed/That color line/Here at his/1800 family project”.
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Guthrie penned Old Man Trump at a time when he was thinking deeply about race and segregation in the US, Kaufman said. In a letter to his friend activist Stetson Kennedy, Guthrie described the Beach Haven complex as a “JimCrow [sic] town”.

“His landlord Fred Trump is in essence the mayor of ‘JimCrow town’, this segregated town,” Kaufman explained. Guthrie lived in Beach Haven for two years until his wife broke the lease with Trump when Guthrie became increasingly ill after being diagnosed with Huntington’s disease. Kaufman said he returned to Guthrie’s writings on Fred Trump as Donald Trump began to discuss race on the campaign trail. Trump has proposed banning all Muslims from the US and said an Indiana-born federal judge was biased because of his Mexican heritage."



THAT was Donald Trump's upbringing ..... on money made from public housing, and gouging


see also

http://theconversation.com/woody-guthrie-old-man-trump-and-a-real-estate-empires-racist-foundations-53026

"In 1979, 12 years after Guthrie had succumbed to the death sentence of Huntington’s Disease, Village Voice reporter Wayne Barrett published a two-part exposé about Fred and Donald Trump’s real estate empire.

Barrett devoted substantial attention to the cases brought against the Trumps in 1973 and 1978 by the Civil Rights Division of the U.S. Justice Department. A major charge was that “racially discriminatory conduct by Trump agents” had “created a substantial impediment to the full enjoyment of equal opportunity.” The most damning evidence had come from Trump’s own employees. As Barrett summarizes:

According to court records, four superintendents or rental agents confirmed that applications sent to the central [Trump] office for acceptance or rejection were coded by race. Three doormen were told to discourage blacks who came seeking apartments when the manager was out, either by claiming no vacancies or hiking up the rents. A super said he was instructed to send black applicants to the central office but to accept white applications on site. Another rental agent said that Fred Trump had instructed him not to rent to blacks. Further, the agent said Trump wanted “to decrease the number of black tenants” already in the development “by encouraging them to locate housing elsewhere.” "

he ain't self made David

Eight years ago the US had to choose between a coloured male or a white woman.
They chose the former.

This time the US must choose between that same white woman or
a self made billionaire megalomaniac.

freedom of choice - isn't that in the 'wholly grail' of amendments somewhere? If it is, why would he change it.
:-0

Trump would NOT have been chosen by Senators, Congressmen, leaders of the Republican Party OR main stream republicans.

BUT his way of talking, repulsive though it might be to us, appeals to members of the right wing Republicans (aka Tea Party), to the red necks and to those I mentioned before ..... the lower and lower middle class people who have lost jobs, homes and even families as industry has left the US for overseas.

Those groups all blame the Democrats AND mainstream Republicans.

In addition, the other platform of the Tea Party members is evangelical christianity .... and Trump has been proclaiming himself an evangelical christian since soon after he started his campaign.

That all means changes to laws that have been in place for years re abortion, freedom of choice, rights for LGBTQ, etc etc etc

Nutty or otherwise, it is reckoned Mr Trump would not have been chosen as the Republican candidate had the choice been left entirely to Sennators & Congressmen.

'Violent Soundbites' - the words we hear broadcast constantly - are not real debates.

Rollo, that rust-belt scenario you mention that could be played out in Middlesbrough could be played out across north-east England as a whole.

It would spell disaster for thousands of families as we well know.

The finger points .... not only for thee .... :-S

:-D :-D :-D

we're waiting for Trump to build it ;-)

Have the Canadians started building a wall yet?

;-)

god help the world if Trump makes it!

In my opinion, women who won't vote for Hil because she's a woman need to come up with a better excuse than that. They remind me of women who needle on to outshine their daughters. Don't you just love that kind of ego?

Do you think Hil and her pals may have to begin to sling mud about the Russian connection, about the bankruptcies, about the fact that T was not self-made (didn't his father stump up for him?)? Where's Bill? Is she keeping him out of the way?

God help the US if T makes it. :-0

Not far from our ancient house in a French village is this place (where we eat and party when in the money)

http://moulindefourges.com/en/

It is also a favorite of the Clintons. When they decide to eat there their party prefers normal life to go on for everybody else so far as possible - which means a heavy duty security check for a lot of people not all v happy about it.

Anyway observed at close quarters Hilary Clinton is not a tough severe sort of person at all but warm, friendly plus she can be very funny. I am sure the USA will vote for somebody normal. I have no idea how and why the hate campaign against her was wipped up kargely on the basis of a private e-mail server.

There is just so much about Trump paralled by the rise and rise of Adolf Hitler - including vendettas and people not taking him seriously.

Big chunks of the USA have not recovered from globalisation and / or work for very poor money side by side with the high rollers of the information technology, media, big pharma and finance industries which are the winners as in the UK. Parts of Chicago, Wayne, New Orleans, Rochester are a desolation beyond the wildest fears of Europeans. If Liam Fox has his way it is a play that could be staged in, say, Middlesborough.

As with the brexiters they no longer identify with traditional Democrats who they see as having sold out the working class. If Trump could stop playing his one man band, shut up and allow people such as Ryan to do the talking he would be in with a real chance. As our rguby people would say play the ball not the man.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=UCK8hSXhJw8

"Now Main Street's whitewashed windows and vacant stores
Seems like there ain't nobody wants to come down here no more
They're closing down the textile mill across the railroad tracks
Foreman says these jobs are going boys and they ain't coming back to your hometown"

The Boss

JoyL

I'm not sure that I am as convinced that Trump will not get in.

He appeals very much to the currently disaffected lower and lower-middle classes of (mainly) white Americans, those who have lost their well-paid jobs in mining, car manufacture, iron and steel mills etc ................ all of which have gone overseas as labour is much cheaper. On the other hand, labour costs in the US continued to rise, but the labour force never realised what they were doing .......... all they knew was that they could leave school, often without graduating, and walk straight into a well-paying job where they could stay until they retired.

He also appeals to that group we commonly call the "red-necks" ......... those who see nothing good in coloured people, immigrants, anyone who wants to take away their right to defend themselves with guns.

Many in the above groups also have a very derogatory view of women.

Never forget that Trump was one of the leaders among the people who spent years demanding that Obama provide proof that he was indeed born in the US. They are still absolutely convinced he was born in Kenya or somewhere else overseas, and thus was never eligible to run as president..

On the other hand, Hillary is a woman .......... people might overlook some of the things she is accused of by Trump and others IF "she" was a man. A huge group of people, including many women :-0 will not vote for Hillary because she is female.

That's a viewpoint that many of us find very hard to accept, but it is a reality.

Trump vaunts his success as a businessman, and uses this for saying he is the "only" person who can right all the wrongs ............. yet all his supporters very carefully ignore the fact that he has gone bankrupt several times, that many of his businesses have gone under, and the very recent information that much of his monetary backing is coming from, of all places, Russia. Hence, why Putin is supporting him and why Trump is so Putin-friendly.


The winner of this election might well come down to how many voters do not in fact vote ................ and how many defect from the Republicans vs from the Democrats.

Not that good at American Politics, Sylvia? I think you've given a good account of some of what I studied but I ain't getting my books and papers out nor am I googling to check that my memory serves me right. (Yes, I've kept everything for years!)

The Trump show doesn't really interest me because I think most Americans would not vote for someone with his character and temperament. I could be proved wrong though, as I was with our In/Out Vote.

To me, he seems not to be a quick thinker, he appears to be a mud-chucker to allay any profound questioning and a man too quick to rise. He could make big errors of judgment eg appointing a Middle East Ambassador with a Jewish family background (oops, astonishingly, it's already been done at least twice) guaranteed to get no co-operation from the area's Muslims.

Clinton, on the other hand, has proved herself. In public, she appears cool, calm and collected (no matter what we are told she throws at Bill in private). She has a vast amount of governmental experience and a propensity not to 'mouth off' in the way that T does, ie she knows when to shut up and stop flogging a dead horse. She is no hair-tosser - and I mean that literally without any double entendre.

Go Hil. :-D

Repeal the 2nd amendment? Of course not the idea is inconceivable.
What is being considered is some kind of deux ex machina so that changes in the law designed to return the 2nd to its original purpose could not very easily be reversed.

The last US const amendment, the 27th, was passed as recently as 1992. It deals with the pay of government workers. True it was originall proposed in 1789 .these things take time (brexiters please note)..

The codes which POTUS carried around do exactly ... nothing.
Whether a minuteman silo or a nuke submarine it is the local commander on the spot who will actually arm and launch the weapons. The poss. of the local commander kicking off OR refusing orders have both been considered. A commander getting an order from Trump might very well refuse to comply while a Trump pres. giving such an order against US policy would be impeached. Other than Trump ( and Goldwater long ago ) no Republican has spoken out in favour of first strike. US nuke research is v much based on defensive neasures regardless of party.

The UK is in the same boat (lit.) . The PM just issues an order the local commander (not necc. the captain) would actually auth. the launch. The UK coujld be fairly sure of landing 8 MIRVs on the enemy ... just poissibly there is a better buy for our defense £.

US land based missile control systems are in a sorry state of repair and those of Russia even worse. That is a good thing 'cos it suggests that the whole M.A.D. idea of armageddon is losing traction ( except with T May ). One reason for this is that MAD is not as mad as it used to be and war gaming suggests that in a US/Russia confrontation the USA could "win".

OTOH Putin is warming to and spending sig cash on tactical nukes and all recent large scale exercises nr E Europe have included them. Nearest base to Berlin: Kalinigrad. Putin is betting that the use of tactical nukes would not kick of ww3. Maybe, but not a bet I'd make.

twilght's last gleaming ?

sometime 2017-2020 Russia will default on its external libilities unless the oil price goes well north of $80. The next US president will need to have an idea about what could become a very ugly situation. The nuances are utterly lost on Trump who is a Putin fanboy.
.

diddums :-D :-D :-D

Trump's latest - he has attacked The New York Times saying he would "start thinking about taking their press credentials away from them".

Why?

Basically, he doesn't like what they say about him :-0

Yes, but if they went against what the President said, wouldn't they be tried for treason and then shot?

A European view, a Canadian view all we need now is an American one.

Andy's mum posted ...........

Andysmum Report 12 Aug 2016 12:23

Heaven help us if he gets elected!

However ---- I'm not that good at American politics, but doesn't the president have to get everything past Congress before it becomes law?? Like the problems Obama has had with changes to the gun laws and his ideas for a health service?

IF I'm right, hopefully they will keep the Donald in check. %3A-%7C %3A-%7C
%3A-%7C

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Rollo gave a fairly European view of American politics, Joonie has corrected him on some aspects .... and I suggest that we who live much closer to America than you in Europe do know more about American politics and how it works.

First ............ the Supreme Court

The president nominates a candidatee for the Supreme Court, BUT that candidate then has to undergo he most rigorous examination by both Congress and Senate before they are approved .......... and the Republicans stated categorically that they would NOT approve any candidate put forward by Obama during his last year in office, as he had no right to do that.

Of course, that is patent nonsense, as Republican Presidents have done precisely that in the past. :-P

Second to answer Andy'smum .........

......... yes, orders have to be passed by the President's advisors, cabinet, etc, and laws have to be passed by the Congress and Senate. EXCEPT when it comes to nuclear warfare.

One of 5 military officers accompanies the President at all times, carrying the case that contains the box to send a message that a nuclear weapon is to be set off. The president carries a "card" at all times (in bed even) that gives him the code to be used.

The President and only the President can push that button, and it is quite possible that a rogue president would do just that ........ the ONLY level of prevention is the military who MUST obey the Commander-in-Chief's orders, ie start the process of sending a nuclear warhead to wherever ............ unless they have every reason to believe that the president is insane. They can then refuse to carry out the order.


Thus ............... in Trump's case, if he decided to push the button, the only thing stopping a nuclear war would be the military rebelling against an order.

Would they do that???


Who knows!!! One would hope so.