General Chat

Bob, why do you have a poppy with a "Jimmy" ?

frequently......

Oh yes, you did say Sylvia.

:-D

still got ours to come, Island ..................

This coming Sunday

Has everyone got themselves back in sync yet? :-D

It may take the dog a little longer..... :-( :-D

oh dear, Rollo


you do show your ignorance!

The roads in Canada are spread with a mix of sand to provide traction and a salt or an artificial solution that helps to melt the ice and snow.

It's a pro-active progamme using both de-icing and anti-icing substances

Most winter road maintenance now follows an anti-icing program where the surfaces of major arterial roads are treated BEFORE snow and/or ice arrives. That involves spraying a viscous briny solution that dries on the road surface so that the leftover salt starts to work immediately snow begins to fall or freezing temperatures occur.

Doing this reduces or slows down the accumulation of snow and ice on treated pavement surfaces.

You can actually watch the snow or ice melt as it touches the surface.

Homeowners use a salt or chemical mix to spread on garden walks AND sidewalks abutting their property so that snow and ice will melt almost immediately so that passers-by do not fall and injure themselves. This also helps with the snow clearing that has to be done by 10 am whenever there has been a snowfall of more than 4 cm

That's a legal requirement, by the way, not homeowner being "nice" ............. there is a large fine if it is not done. As is the instruction that snow removed from sidewalks must be shovelled back onto your property NOT into the street.


FYI ............... Deicers are made of mineral salts and work on the chemistry principle that salt water has a lower freezing point than fresh water. As the salts dissolve, they seep down to form a liquid layer underneath the ice that allows the ice to be easily removed. Most commonly used depending on circumstances such as temperature are Sodium Chloride (Rock Salt); Potassium Chloride;
Calcium Chloride; Magnesium Chloride.

Deicers containing urea or chemical fertilizers may be good for grassy areas, but they’re the most corrosive to concrete and the least recommended of all the deicers.

There are also a few non-chloride based deicers, for example calcium magnesium acetate (CMA), is a more environmentally-friendly deicer made from limestone and acetic acid.

Sand and Kitty Litter can be used to provide traction but doesn't help melt ice.


An anti-icing solution that a home owner can use is simply a liquid salt solution that dries on the pavement, leaving a salt crust.

Road maintenance companies use a special viscous sticky spray that is not available for general use.


and yes, I can go on when faced with ignorance.

;-) ;-) ;-)

But nice :-D

Island Pmsl
Naughty :-D :-D :-D

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=EwPsFz85gGw

:-\

Oh SylviaInCanada you do go on.
Yawns
:-\

http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/weather/9071021/Freezing-temperatures-too-cold-for-grit-to-work.html

Rollo

You think know everything, don't you????????


We SAND roads over here. Please do use the correct word, we do not GRIT roads!

Every paved road in Canada, and many of the side gravel roads in Canada and in the US are in fact graded and sanded as soon as possible after every snow fall, and the companies contracted to do that also have to get out and be ready to sand icy roads every morning. Even a small village will have someone contracted to do that ........ and believe me, we have driven many miles in the winter in several areas of Canada so I can vouch for the fact that this happens.

In areas with high snowfall, it might be more a matter of grading the snow so that a firm smooth surface is provided ........... hence the requirement for all drivers going outside the parameters of a major city to have either all weather or winter tires with a mountain and snowflake symbol on them, and for vehicles over a certain weight and certainly all trucks to have and use chains, even on flat roads.


No, our accident on black ice was not due to poor driving. The driver was an excellent driver, and knew exactly what he was doing. It was due to the fact that the company responsible for SANDING the road had developed a habit of not turning out to do their job until the first accident happened.

If you are driving on a high elevation road and turn a corner into shade, you cannot see black ice on the road. The driver had slowed down for just that reason, but could not avoid the skid and spin, or the second patch of black ice that was in the centre of the road.

The first question asked by the RCMP when they arrived was "how fast were you driving?"

The second was "have you seen the sander go by?"

The answer to that second question was "Yes, about 10 minutes ago!"

The company lost their contract that spring.


You quite obviously have not driven in winter in the northern US or in Canada, or you would know much better than to say what you did.

It is very different from driving in Europe or in England.



In other words .......... you have just shown that you do NOT know everything :-D

Edinburg 21 Dec 2016 10:44 (Winter)
Sunrise 07:20? 115° Southeast
Sunset 16:32
Which is < 12 hours of nominal daylight. In practice the sun is so low that not much of percolates past the steep streets and multi storied tenements of Auld Reekie. By the time you get to Dundee it is of course even darker.

The Scottish midges prefer the westerm isles where thy can find lots of sassenachs to feed on. Sailing the eastern side ia nor muxh fun even if midge free.

All of the United States is south of the UK. Pretty obviously the further south you go the less relevance there is to DST (hint: the world is round) ) so the downsides outweigh the upsides. The US is used to dealing with multiple time zones Europe is not hence most of the peninsula being on CET.

Bad driving on icy roads is just that and cannot really be blamed on DST as the ice tends to last all day. The UK has a fairly effective program of salt/sand spreading which save a lot of drivers from their poor ice road judgements. I have always found it amazing that in places such as New Tork state by far the majority of drivers seem to have no idea. At least in Atlanta when the inevitable winter freeze arrives - any time of the day - they can claim they don't get much practice.

It is not possible to grit the Canadian roads, too far to go, and in any case we know from channel 5 and ice road truckers they have the problem nailed. Even in the dark.

Interesting ........... I've just been listening to a radio programme on whether we should do away with DST.

One of the participants was from the US, and he pointed out that they had carried out a trial with the European time, with disastrous results.

Most of the northern states were still dark at 9:30 or 10 am, but the kids still had to get to school. There was an increase in school bus accidents and of serious injury to students.

Most people who live in the northern climes here, especially when mountain roads are involve, try not to drive those roads until about 1 hour after sunup because of the problem of Black Ice.

We've spun off the road ourselves after hitting a patch of black ice as we went round a corner ........... fortunately we spun over to the other side of the road, and then down into an 8' deep ditch. The car rolled 3 times, ending up on the passenger side. Luckily we weren't too injured, just a lot of bruises in very interesting places, and the car was even passed as fit to drive back home.

If we had spun the other way, we would have been down 200-300' cliff.

There is not very much you can do when the whole road is covered with black ice.


Hence, the experiment by the US with European time came to a halt.

Being retired, the time doesn't matter. I get up when I like and go to bed when I like. Ain't life grand?

I survived perfectly well, indeed I prospered as anybody who works hard in the USA will do .... New York City, Rochester New York State, Atlanta, Denver, Knoxville, Los Angeles, Santa Cruz, Sunnyvale (San Franciso). Moreover I was usually involved with real time links back to Europe and also Japan.

The difference is that Canada is longitudinaly challeniging where as the UK is only latitudinaly stretched. OK, financial stretched as well these days. Which is why the country would benefit hugely from moving to Central European Time. It would be a big boost for business and greatly reduce pedestrian and cycle traffic injuries which have been on a rising curve for many years and now head the overall fatalities stats.

The brexit negotiations will def be held in CET. The timing of commiques to fit in with European rather than UK evening news slots is already a hot issue.


Farmers managed perfectly well for thousands of years by the time of the sun which is the only time animals and plats know about. The objections of Scottish farmers that it mucks up their milking times is absurd. North of the Forth Bridge it is pretty well dark all day anyway during the winter. The b-y midges get really hungry and come out to eat with a vengeance in the summer, something the Tourist board never mentions. I believe parts of Canada have the same problem. They don't need Summer Time to get going on the soft skin of tourists.

Rollo posted ..............

"England & Wales would benefit no end by moving to CET. One day they will. It has already been tried 1940-1947 and 1968-1971. As posted the main objectors were the Scots and back bench MPs. Everybody else was pleased with the extra daylight and overall road accidents were sharply reduced.

An extra 2 hours of real time contact with Europe would help business no end. 'cos of the GMT nonsense I have to be available from 8am"

-----------
Poor baby, having to get up early :-D

Rollo ................ business people on the West Coast of N America have to be in the office for 5 am if they want to talk to anyone on the East Coast of the US or Canada. AND they still have to be there at 5 pm if they want to talk to businesses in the same time zone at the end of the business day.

You wouldn't survive!!!


Maybe adapting to CET would help business no end, and allow you to start work later................

but it will do damn all for Joe Blow citizen


Business interests persuaded George Dubya Bush that extending the season of "summer time" to 8 months would be an excellent idea.

The legislation was changed and took effect in 2007, the US went to DST coming in on the second Sunday in March and ends on the first Sunday in November. This provided 8 months of DST and 4 months of non-DST

The Canadian government were persuaded by business interests that Canada had to do the same thing, so that there would be little change in the already existing time differences ......

.............. remembering that the East coast is always 4 hours ahead of the West Coast, so stock exchanges on the West Coast have to open at 5 or 6 am when NY opens at 9 or 10 am. Stock brokers on the East Coast often get to theri office by 4 am

Result??????????

Costs for electricity and gas to warm and light homes in March and late October early November soared ........... it's still pitch dark and chilly at 7-15 am on the West Coast this week while people are normally getting up at 6 or 6:30 am.

Similarly, businesses have to heat and light buildings for longer.

Road accident rates increased, more injuries and deaths


Who won???????????

The oil and gas businesses that suggested the scheme to Dubya have made massive profits in the years since the scheme came in.

Ordinary citizens and small businesses have paid out more for heating and light, so costs for them have increased , quite dramatically in some areas.

Plus kiddies and adults are going to work in the dark for a longer period of the year.

My objection is not so much to what time zone we are in, although GMT (or "Winter") time makes most sense for the UK as the sun is then at its highest near to mid-day as opposed to 1pm when we are on "summer" time.

In summer, the "nine to five" working day is actually "eight to four" even though in summer the evenings are lighter and the extra hour of daylight isn't actually needed unless you are into playing golf, bowls or tennis at 10pm.

What I find annoying is the business of changing the clocks and pretending it is a different time to that shown by the sun.

Changing to a fixed clock would actually encourage businesses which are light dependent to adopt working hours to match the light and therefore spread the "rush hour" over a longer period, so reducing congestion and accidents.

I thought it was all about the working Daylight hours for Farmers
and the children coming and going to school :-D

Surely "Daylight Saving Time", is a bit of a Misnomer?

How can you SAVE daylight?
there are only a certain amount of daylight minutes per day, and thats' yer lot!

making "Better use" of the daylight available would be a more sensible term,methinks.....