General Chat

Sorry not got back to reply but had one of the dreaded menieres attacks so it's been lying down trying to stop the world spinnng around. Thanks for your replies it's now just wait to see if the offer is accepted or not , Inspector, the ambiguity is in the wording of "living at my death" it shouldn't have that wording and it not having the added wording after in equal shares per stirpes something about it going down to a further generation, but the other way of looking at it is that it didn't have it because that's what he wanted.!!!!!!
Pam??

Yes, glad to see there is a solution but just out of interest, which wording does your solicitor consider ambiguous?

The wording you described originally seemed unambiguous, or is there something else we are missing?

Hope it works Pam, probably a good decision to save it dragging on and giving a lion's share to solicitors.

Spoke to a solicitor yesterday and was told that the wording of the will is ambiguous but it does appear that I would inherit my mothers full share but because of the ambiguity then it could go to both costly and lengthy legal battle, so I have said that to avoid this I will accept a 2/3 share with the remaining 1/3 going to my sisters children, and I have said I will sign a deed of variation to this effect, we now have to see if this is acceptable to all parties so it's watch this space.
Many thanks to all of you who have taken the time to give me your words of support and words of wisdom on this. Pam

Another variation of how to leave money is by dividing the estate into "parts" ................

eg, 10 parts, of which 4 will be left to a, 3 to b, etc etc


We were involved in a will like this about 30 years ago when an elderly cousin of OH's father died. A single woman in her 70s, her will specified the number of parts that were to go to each of her cousins, and then to their offspring. OH's father was dead, we had to supply his sister's address to the solicitor. Most of the other cousins were also dead so their offspring had to be traced. Eventually after about 2 years, OH and sis-i-l got their inheritance, and then more money arrived about 3 years later after further settlement of the will.


We rewrote our will last year, and it is divided into percentages ......... we have no idea how much will be in the estate when we die. It depends on how long we live, how much money we have to spend to get good health care (expensive to very expensive over here), whether we still own a house and how much that will sell for, etc etc etc.

Taking every possible precaution because the estate could be much larger or very much smaller, so percentages were very obviously the best option.

We decided that we wanted to leave something to nieces and nephews and to charities we support, as well as to our daughter and grandson ......... the lawyer was very careful to ensure that we had thought about whether our daughter might go to court to claim more of the estate. We hope not!!

But it is also very carefully spelled out as to what is to happen if one of the beneficiaries has died, and how that percentage is to be divided in the event of living offspring or not ............. in fact one niece is already deceased leaving 1 child so that child is named.

It is particularly carefully spelled out in our daughter's case ............ if she is dead, her percentage is added to the percentage being put into a trust fund for her son. He will not get access to that money until he is 30. If he is also dead and there are no other offspring, all the money returns to the estate. That may sound harsh for daughter's husband, but we have our problems with him, and it was acceptable to the lawyer.

It seemed to me that a lot of what we did, followed a standard procedure (over here).

We also included in the will that nieces and nephews should be allowed the option of choosing anything that we owned that our daughter did not want, especially things that we had inherited from "their" side of the family.

Also specified is that if any part of the estate is sold (house, art work, books, etc etc), the proceeds go back into the estate for disbursement.

I thought I'd clarify what I know about a Deed of Variation. It also shows how important it is to use percentages in wills, rather than specific amounts.

In my working life, I came across the situation below.

Many years ago, when an elderly person died it was discovered that the will had been made umpteen years before the person's death - and the will was not written in percentages but in figures, leaving, say, £50,000 each to two charities but the bulk of the estate to the deceased person's children. The bulk of the estate was, at the time of drawing up the will, substantially more than the amount left to the charities.

By the time of the person's death there was nothing (or very little) for the children to inherit as the person had used up almost all of the savings.

The solicitor approached the charities, explaining the situation. It was clearly unfair to the children who had been the major beneficiaries at the time the will was signed. One charity (the smaller one) agreed immediately. The other (a large, well-known one) was disinclined to agree, even after a considerable time. That charity was eventually persuaded to 'do the right thing' in accordance with the original intent of the will.

A Deed of Variation was signed eventually.


I've written on this before in some other thread, so apologies for any repetition.

Good luck, Pam.

If your sister was dead when the testator died, it looks as though her children are not in line for an inheritance.

Being optimistic, perhaps your aunt and cousin are feeling sorry for your sister's children and they find the will a tad unfair. If this is the case they may be trying to ensure that the children receive their mother's share (half of that £60,000) if she had been alive when the testator died? (A variation could be what they are after in order to include the children.)

Have you asked them?

The will seems pretty clear to me though perhaps your aunt and cousin, as executors, feel obliged to include your sister's children to avoid any ill-feeling. I would probably feel the same but I believe you would all have to agree on a Deed of Variation.

I think you have done the right thing in seeking a solicitor's advice.

i look forward to hearing the outcome.

Again thanks everyone for replying I am seeing a solicitor next week, it's a large amount of money involved my cousin told me yesterday that my share or what would have been my mothers share is about £60000, think I've put the right amount of zeros it's sixty thousand pounds so it would be quite life changing , also my aunt told me both her and my cousin are taking out insurance against being sued , I feel so confused by the whole affair and also upset that it's happening, I will let you know what the solicitor says, again thanks everyone <3

Was this will done by a solicitor? If so, another solicitor should be able to sort it.

However, when I read it, I can only see that person b's living child will inherit person b's share. If the child is under 21 it will be held in trust until they come to that age.
No child to inherit if the person (a,b,c,d or e) is still alive is pretty clear.

I wonder what their reaction was when you told them your own solicitor didn't agree with their own one?

Presumably under your own reading of it they would not be getting as much as they would with this offer. Do they know they can claim expenses from the estate and that they are personally liable if it is later found that they distributed the inheritance wrongly?

You need legal advice NOW !
You wouldn't have to take them to court, they can't discharge the will as it stands now. Don't accept anything not even verbally.
If it needs to go to court they will cover the costs from the estate.
Sounds very strange their lawyer asking you to take a % very strange indeed.

BE CAREFUL

I think you really ought to get legal advice.

However, I think the testator means that a, b, c, d and e are entitled to equal amounts. If they are the only beneficiaries that would mean 20% each.

If b (your mother) was dead at the time of the testator's death, her share would pass to her children living at the time of the testator's death.

You mention your late sister. As I understand what you wrote, if your sister was alive at the testator's death, she would be entitled to a share of your mother's inheritance and her children would therefore inherit that share upon her death.

Edit: If your sister was already dead at the time of the testator's death (had predeceased the testator) then her children would not inherit.

For anyone under 21, their inheritance would be held in trust until they attain the age of 21.

That is how I read your post re the will. I'd be interested to know what happens.

I have spoken to a solicitor who has said that they are interpreting the will incorrectly but the next step could be to take my aunt and cousin to court as the executors so that's an ouch!!!!

Seems like we are back to advising you to get your own legal advise.

These links to commercial sites may help you understand what a contentious will is all about :

http://www.lelaw.co.uk/cms/document/Guide_to_contentious_probate.pdf

http://www.convenient-wills.co.uk/what_is_contentious.html

Personally, I would want the offer in writing not via a relative.

This matter has continued on for the last few months with nothing having been done until last week when my aunt whose with her son my cousin are executors of the will although they have passed it too a solicitor to deal with spoke to me telling me that , seems the solicitor has decided that the will is ambiguous and is called a contentious will so will probably have to go before a court to decide what happens , that is until today when my cousin phoned me to say the solicitor wants to speak to me and want to know if I will accept an offer of a percentage of the inheritance and the balance then shared between the others , I have to think about it and let them know, I have never heard of this sort of thing happening has anyone else or is this normal

Have you had any luck sorting the meaning of the wording yet?

I've been in a similar situation, why they think it's not clear is weird. The one person was to inherit but they died. Therefore it goes to their children. If any of them have died before the will is read then hard luck so to speak and it goes to the living child unless the will had said and if they too have died it goes to their children eg grandchildren.
The only problem area would be if one of the named people had died before the will was read and they had no children or it said their children were not to inherit then their share goes back into the pot so to speak.

Get good legal advice now as this person dealing with the will doesn't know what they're on about or is being pushed by somene else.

Hope all goes well for you :-)

Thanks everyone for replying and for the advise given, I agree with all of you that everything left to B should go to her surviving child that's what the will states and how the solicitor can find it ambiguous amazes me. I think I should speak to a solicitor about this as it is a life changing amount of money involved in this at one time about 10 years ago the sum of £100.000 was talked about. As to the others making a deed of variation I think the words of snowball in hell come to mind. Hubby and I made arrangements to make new wills and I am going to make sure they are very simple and nothing that can cause any problems for those left behind.
Again thanks very much advise really appreciated
Pam

Yes, if B is deceased then their share is divided among any of their children who were still alive at the time of the death AND who reach the age of 21.

If any of B's children were already deceased the their line is not entitled.

However, it would be necessary to see the entire Will in case there is something else that isn't clear from the above.