General Chat

I am stuck.....please help!!
John Willie was born to Reuben Whitehouse & Mary Sophia Whitehouse (Fern)
he appears on the 1901 Census living in Sheffield with Mother (widow) and the Fern Family
1911 census living in Amersham aged 11 with a Family called Markwick as a boarder
I need to find out what happened between 1901 and 1911 that he would be sent away from his family (mother went on to have more children) we have been told that he was sent to live with his father but not true as he died in 1901
don't know where to look for further information if anyone has any guidance for me that would be great
thank you

As you say that mother went on to have more children, that she married again?


Could it be simply that the new husband did not want / accept John Willie?

First marriage to Reuben

Marriages Mar 1891 (>99%)

Fern Mary Sophia Ecclesall B. 9c 457
Whitehouse Reuben Ecclesall B. 9c 457


Were there any more children to this marriage as it occurred 8 years before John Willie was born?

There is another boarder in the 1911 aged 9. I wonder if the family fostered children from organiations like Barnado's?

Andy

1891 England, Wales & Scotland Census Transcription
Harworth Street, Nether Hallam, Ecclesall Bierlow, Yorkshire, England

Learn more

Print transcription View image Household Members
First name(s) Last name Relationship Marital status Gender Age Birth year Occupation Birth place
Ruben Whitehouse Head Married Male 21 1870 Pearl Button Maker Sheffield, Yorkshire, England Transcription
Mary Sophia Whitehouse Wife Married Female 22 1869 - Sheffield, Yorkshire, England Transcription
Mary Whitehouse Sister Single Female 17 1874 - West Bromwich, Staffordshire, England Transcription

yes, more children ...............

WHITEHOUSE, SYDNEY FERN
GRO Reference: 1892 J Quarter in ECCLESALL BIERLOW Volume 09C

WHITEHOUSE, LAWRENCE FERN
GRO Reference: 1895 S Quarter in ECCLESALL BIERLOW Volume 09C Page 377

WHITEHOUSE, ELSIE FERN
GRO Reference: 1897 J Quarter in ECCLESALL BIERLOW Volume 09C Page 374

WHITEHOUSE, REUBEN FERN
GRO Reference: 1898 S Quarter in ECCLESALL BIERLOW Volume 09C Page 354

WHITEHOUSE, JAMES GREAVES FERN
GRO Reference: 1903 J Quarter in ECCLESALL BIERLOW Volume 09C Page 386


Plus .........

WHITEHOUSE, JOHN WILLIE FERN
GRO Reference: 1899 D Quarter in CHESTERFIELD Volume 07B Page 776


so ...... what happened to the other children?????

hi guys
yes there was Sydney born 1892 , Lawrence 1895, Florence 1897 then John 1899
she didn't get married again but had children with James Greaves - Ida 1907, and Herbert 1912 not sure of any more yet but in 1911 Mary lived with James and all the children apart from Florence and John (there is an Elsie but i think this may be Florence's middle name, if this is correct she lived with Mary's sister in 1911).
bit confused by it all
:-S

WHITEHOUSE, JOHN WILLIE FERN Order
GRO Reference: 1899 D Quarter in CHESTERFIELD Volume 07B Page 776

ancestry strikes again!!

No wonder Mary is hard to find in 1901!!

It IS Mary on the image ... and she is living with the Ferns, not Head of her own house

1901 Census

Name: Harry Whitehouse
Age: 32
Estimated birth year: abt 1869
Relation to Head: Head
Gender: Male
Birth Place: Sheffield, Yorkshire, England
Civil Parish: Nether Hallam
Search Photos: Search for 'Nether Hallam' in the UK City, Town and Village Photos collection
Ecclesiastical parish: Walkley St Mary
Town: Sheffield
County/Island: Yorkshire
Country: England

Registration district: Ecclesall Bierlow
Sub-registration district: Hallam
ED, institution, or vessel: 45

Piece: 4344
Folio: 68
Page Number: 34
Household schedule number: 209

Harry Whitehouse 32
Sidney Whitehouse 8
Florence Whitehouse 5
John Whitehouse 8/12

yeah I struggled with the Harry thing!!!
she is also called Polly in 1911 census and also on some baptism records
it can be so confusing!

there has been mention in the past of barnardo's for John but not sure how to find out about this, I wonder what was going on in Mary's life to send her youngest away.
I also find it odd that John came back to Sheffield and back into the family fold with his mother and brothers/sisters prior to getting married in 1929 .

so is this Mary Sophia in 1911???

1911 Census

Name: James Greaves
Age in 1911: 8
Estimated birth year: abt 1903
Gender: Male
Birth Place: Sheffield, Yorkshire, England
Civil Parish: Ecclesall
Search Photos: Search for 'Ecclesall' in the UK City, Town and Village Photos collection
County/Island: Yorkshire-West Riding
Country: England
Street address: 12 Eden St Sheffield
Marital Status: Single
Occupation: None
Registration district: Ecclesall Bierlow
Registration District Number: 509
Sub-registration district: Ecclesall North
ED, institution, or vessel: 15
Piece: 27715

James Hatton 38
Matilda Hatton 37
Given Hatton 9
James Hatton 6
Vera Hatton 4
Albert Hatton 4
M Apartments
James Greanes 27
Polly Whitehouse 50
Laurence Whitehouse 15
Janey Whitehouse 19
James Greaves 8

Interesting ............ the image says that James Greaves etc are Visitors. James is Single, Polly is Widowed.
Ida Whitehouse 4

yes this is Mary also known as Polly,
James is on Herberts birth Certificate as the Father
Ida and Herbert have Whitehouse as surnames, but on the search results have Greaves also.....is this something that happens when the parents weren't married?

Perhaps moving back to his mother and siblings in Sheffield is not so strange ............... it was after WW1, and that maybe caused a breaking down of whatever fences had been built between them.

Maybe he was a "bad boy", and was sent to a remand school or similar.

Do you know if John Willie served in WW1?

yes john willie survived the war, he was my husband's grandfather, he died in 1976
we aren't sure whether he moved back prior to the war or after

It is the mother's surname that determines the surname of the baby ..........

a baby born to a married woman always is under her married name. Her husband is always assumed to be the father (no matter how long he might have been dead) unless the birth father goes with her to register the baby and agrees that he is the father and that his name should be on the birth certificate.

The only time this would change would be if the mother lied about her status, and said she was married to the birth father ....... which does happen as no proof of marital status or husband has to be shown.

At least, Mary and James were being honest about their arrangement!

There is something a little strange about the 1911 Census for Amersham, I'm not sure what it means ..............

The Markwicks live in Rowan Cottages, Great Missenden, Amersham, Buckinghamshire, and have 2 boarders aged 9 and 11 and both going to school.

The house next door but one has 3 boarders, ages 8, 8 and 4, unrelated and from differing areas of the UK

House next to that has 2 boarders, age 11 and 10, unrelated, from different parts of England

2 more boarders at the next house

and on it seems to go


I wonder if there was a Barnardos or similar in the area, and soem boys were boarded out?

I don't know whether you'll find anything in this .........

http://www.hydeheath.com/villagehistory.htm

It may be a little too late.

I never even thought to look at the other houses but that would make sense j get there was a home nearby then!
I have looked on the history of Hyde heath Web page but it's a but later on
thank you for your help on this ?

I can't find anything about any home, industrial school etc in the Missenden area ............ and those boys all came form different areas of England.

Maybe there was some sort of unofficial linkage, to get boys in danger of getting into more trouble out of the city and into the countryside?