General Chat

USA launches 60 missiles at strategic sites in Syria without warning Putin ref Fox News

Awful :-(

More like, USA launches missiles at targets they've decided are strategic to show how 'powerful' they are.

When I looked over the headlines this morning, I was genuinely shocked at the news from Syria. Tuesday’s chemical attack in the province of Idlib had been reported over the previous two days, but attacks in Syria, are, sadly, so common that I’d simply tuned it out. I watched news footage showing the limp bodies of children killed, apparently, by the sarin nerve toxin.

Could there be more direct proof of America's failure in the region?

Just last summer, United States President Barack Obama praised his administration’s handling of Syria's chemical weapons saying that “because we seized a diplomatic option, backed by our threat of force, nations came together and we accomplished far more than military strikes ever could have—all of Syria’s declared chemical weapons were successfully removed.”

Less than a year later, Syrian President Bashar Assad is back to gassing his own people.

(Copied from 'The Trumpet' magazine.)

The failure isn't just the USA's, Dermot. The UK and the French are also involved in Syria, although not on last night's mission.

The failure dates back many years.

Good.
Something for the criminals Putin and Assad to chew on.
Hiding behind the Russian veto will only go so far.
A useful reminder of just who is actually the gorilla on the block.
With Homs airbase out of action maybe Idlib province will get dome respite.
If Brave Dave had had the nerve to follow through when Assad murdered over 1000 with Sarin a lot of things today would be different.

I have visions of both these inadequates (Trump and Putin), now playing 'virtual' war games, to prove who's the 'toughest' whilst not giving a damn about those in between.

Totally agree, Maggie

Whilst grieving for the dead, I am fearful for the living :-(

'Enlightened rulers should lead the way to intellectual liberation & social reform'. (Will Durant).

Bashir Assad is not enlightened.
He firmly believes that victory will come from killing and destruction.
He learned this from his father's victory at Hama 1982. Zift.

So what next?

With D Trump anybody's guess.
Maybot has found herself approving the attack while also looking for a post brexit / sanctions deal with Russia. Ha.

The new strike fighter for NATO F35 and main armanent for the new RN carriers will have its engines serviced in Turkey...

No peace in our time

At the end of the day two wrongs don't make a right.
He bombed the rebels he says without gas.
He says they held the gas.
The rebels hold up amongst civilians hence they get attacked too.
Both sides are wrong.
At least by bombing the bases civilians weren't caught in the middle.
Yes Trump is more trigger happy but did anyone think it was okay to gas children.
There is no good easy fix.

The rebels are not holed up with the civilians they are protecting them. When Assad's army or Hezbollah take rebel territory it is razed. Men and boys over 12 are murdered or disappear.

The true root of this mess is that over a thousand years of hatred between Sunni and Shia Islam has erupted into warfare. The major players are Iran (Shia) and Saudi Arabia (Sunni Wahabi). The Turks are Sunni and the Kurds Shia. Al de'sh claim to be Wahabi. Saudi has two major tribes. Saud and Rashid. the Rashids were in open revolt in the 1970s needing tanks etc to be put down. Rashid control the oil fields and remain tetchy. Saud suspects them of treason with Iran. Assad is Alawi a Shia sect but most Syrians are Sunni. Most Iraqis are Shia with a big Sunni minority.

While both sides of middle eastern Islam are a very long way from European liberal democracy the Shia side are far closer than the Sunni. Now "the west" has found itself stuck in an alliance with its natural enemy against its natural friend Iran. Slowly this is being unwound tho neither Maybot nor Bojo seem aware. The EU and the UK are far apart on defence policy.

As to Syria the certain defeat of Al de'esh this year may make possible some kind of edgy cease fire in Syria esp if Assad is wary of more encouragement from Trump. the ending of the Ba'ath regime would be a huge + for peace but would prob require a de facto division of the country.

"If you want peace prepare for war"

Okay I'm not getting into a war of words over this Rollo....I was simplifying a very complex issue. They are holed up with civilians in so much as they don't have separate military bases. Whomever had the chemical weapons they were wrong.
Like I said two wrongs don't make a right.

I was watching Fox News when the details broke. I have been checking reaction via various news agencies all night.

Something had to be done! Assad has been offered many ways out over the years and has refused them all. He is a megalomaniac of the worst kind and has control of an army who will not question any orders.

I agree with Rollo about the previous vote on attacking Syria (this a hang up from Blair and his disastrous decision to follow Bush).

Last week Spain confiscated £590m worth of property belonging to Assad's family and that wasn't earned in any legal way. Corruption is small beer compared to the murderous actions of Syrian president.

I cannot look away when the photos hit my news feed (and I see all the raw footage).

Sorry this is disjointed but I am tired.

Iran and Russia (of course) have both condemned the strikes. Iran cannot afford to be so critical as the sanctions against them have only recently been eased. Russia can and will criticise to the hilt as they are Syria's ally in this terrible war.

When I listened to Trump explaining why he had ordered (or sanctioned) these strikes it seemed to me, for the first time, that he was sincere. He gets respect from me for that.

We all await the next actions with trepidation but the intolerable 7 year suffering has to stop.

I can't say that I totally understand this situation but I do have horrible memories of reading a William Shirer book and I do see very many more parallels than I am comfortable with.

Book title Sharron ? Not to question but possibly to read.

Don't really want to put it but please Google the author.

Rise and Fall of the Third Reich?

I just thought it would be too alarmist to put that but , yes, I do mean that one.

There was just something I was not happy about when Donald Trump was elected in the way he was but I felt it was probably my own neurosis and better not to share.

Assad was just never meant to be president and was in no way equipped for the position but, as I have explained, I don't really understand this very, very sad situation and I just feel helpless about it so don't follow it as closely as I might.

The former Archbishop of Canterbury has described Donald Trump as a ‘Good Samaritan’ for the American people. Lord Carey said the US President had offered the country ‘a voice’ and said he had ‘deep sympathies’ with the forces that propelled him to victory last year.

His comments put him at odds with the current Archbishop of Canterbury Justin Welby, who said Mr Trump was part of a ‘fascist tradition of politics’.

At the Oxford Literary Festival Lord Carey said: ‘Many will recoil at the identification of Donald Trump as the Good Samaritan but why not? 'Is it not true that we have wounded and left-behind communities passed by the elite who are too distracted and busy with their own agendas, too busy to look over to see someone in distress?

‘And intervention that makes a difference is from a totally unexpected source, the Samaritan, the Outsider.

(The Times 31.03.17).

Carey's incorrect analysis of Donald Trump has nothing at all to with the war in Syria. at least his successor can see that.

It is a matter of international law that a country can take proportionate military action against an agressor or where war crimes have been committed. The action must be "timely" and does not have to wait on months of squabbles at the UN.

Russia and China have been misusing their UN vetos to further agression and war crimes since Stalin.

No major war has ever been settled by diplomacy and negotiation. from Waterloo to 11 11 1918, 8 May 1945 and the US exit from Saigon they have been settled by military defeat. So far no large fascist or totalitarian state has ever won a war against a democracy. so far.

"by the dawn's early light"

Rec reading
Inside The Kingdom - Robert Lacey
the Tin Drum - Gunter Grass
Catch 22 - Joseph Heller
Damascus Bitter Sweet - Ulfat Idilbi