General Chat

Thank you Guinevere. Yes I tend to agree.....it the manner of death which one fears. <3

She coped really well to start with but as it took over, less well. She wasn't afraid of dying so much as the manner of her death.

I think a lot of us feel that way.

I understand that Guinevere and how insensitive of that person to make that statement. How did your mother cope with the cancer herself?

B my parents were devout and practising christians for all of their lives. Criticism from anywhere didn't shake their faith, my father said it would be a very poor faith that could be shaken by criticism.

I do understand hurt, Cynthia. I was hurt when one of the church members told me my mother's cancer was god's will. That sort of god I want no part of.

If we substitute the much over used word 'offended', for the word 'hurt', there may well have been many, many people who cringed and felt their hearts sink when they heard Stephen Fry's utterances.

The trouble is, we Christians are getting used to and, indeed, often expect our faith to be mocked and criticised - we seem to be an easy target. We are tending to shrug our shoulders with a 'here we go again' attitude and carry on with whatever we were doing. We shake our heads sadly and roll our eyes in despair knowing that, if we should say anything in defence of our faith, then we will be blown out of the water by our critics.

One day, enough will be enough.

Meanwhile, we smile quietly and thank God for our many blessings. <3

An Irish police investigation into allegedly blasphemous comments made by Stephen Fry has been dropped after detectives decided there were not enough people who had been outraged by the remarks.

this must be the bestest laugh I've had in ages,,,,,,,he well offended then!,,,but not a lot...... :-D :-D :-D :-D :-D.

I think that you can trace a pattern, thats for sure. Each society seems to carve out a belief system. I don't think it's an inkling of a greater being, more a desire to make sense of their surroundings and daily events. It's certainly human nature to enquire and ask why something happens and, in the event of not knowing that the northern lights were caused by solar particles, it was pretty natural to put them down to some sort of divine intercession. Loads of similar examples. But in the light of modern knowledge and science, these beliefs have been whittled away. Even Galileo got a pardon a few years ago for daring to suggest that the earth orbited the sun and not the other way round! - a discovery for which the inquisition silenced him and he was imprisoned for life.

Cargo cults are an interesting evolutionary example of manufactured religion. Worshipping John Frum is as reasonable to them as it is for a christianj to woship their god.

Creationism was totally accepted until not long ago - and still is in many places. Even the Pope accepts it is not so in light of modern knowledge. One by one the claims of religion are being usurped by knowledge. Yes, there are gaps in our knowledge, but they are being filled as time goes on.

So I think, yes, there may be some genetic prediposition to make sense out of disorder. But I also think that this is being eroded slowly but surely.

And as for proof - well, thats up to the claimant to provide. And old but still relevant point. If I was told out of the blue that I must worship and obey a deity, I would say show me the proof he, she or it exists. Extraordinary claims require extraordinary evidence.

I know, that's why it's called blind faith. Truth by revelation and so on. Comforting if you can ignore the nasty bits.

Is blasphemy a distant synonym of hypocrisy ?

I'm thinking of the Christian chaplains of two or more

opposing army's blessing the troops....before they kill each other :-0

Don't they just - and if its something to do with church/faith/God - they go into overdrive *sigh*.

I know exactly what you mean Guinevere and I don't have the answer.

I suppose I could ask why my mother had MS for over 50 years - why my daughter has autism and my husband has Parkinson's, heart disease and AMD. I can't lay the blame anywhere and I don't wish to blame anyone - I just DO the best I can and BE the best I can. On my journey of caring I have loved and been loved; I have met with kindness and compassion; I have been upheld in prayer and blessed in so many ways. These things have eased my journey and made my burden lighter.


Eldrick......don't you think there is an 'inborn' desire to worship something or someone? Even remote tribes in far flung countries are known to have a god or gods. Its as though mankind has an inkling that there is something bigger, greater and more powerful than they.

As for proof........yes, that's an old one. Thomas was a prime example. :-D

Dead right - all media relishes controversy. :-D

Gay Byrne has been around a long time, I am sure that he knew very well the views that SF expressed would not be to everyone's liking and that's why he asked the questions lol.

SF is an intelligent educated man expressing an opinion, his choice.

Such a notable should be more careful when expressing his opinion.

Those watching that GB programme couldn't help be to some degree influenced.

Sorry, Cynthia. Your god is just one of many alleged or reputed gods, all with an equal claim to being the real one or the only one or whatever.

Its not my religion - I'm not the one making the claims of mercy, goodness, kindness and so on. Im just the one pointing out that the various creeds endow him with the qualities of mercy and goodness. But its strange how these qualities only appear once you are dead. That raises my sceptical level to overdrive.

I dont think he gets a kick out of watching people suffer, but I base that on my claim that he doesn't exist. It's not up to me to prove he doesn't exist - Im not making the claim that he does. I cant prove a negative, no one can. But if you tell me how you prove that Odin doesnt exist, I'll use the same method.

Yes, mankind has a huge amount to answer for. But one of the most horrible things it has done is to manufacture or create religions. That is truly monstrous.

And I include ALL creeds in that - the CoE has nothing to be proud of, the Catholic branch has blood on its hands in the name of your god - all the abrahamic ones are soaked in it. So tea on the lawn with the vicar is well and good, and nice and pleasant, but irrelevant when history and critical thinking is applied.

I do find the discussions stimulating though - but all I ask for is evidence. it's not much to ask, is it. Really, it's not.

Children die in pain from cancer and other dreadful diseases. Not mankind's fault. Not their fault.

That's where I have a problem with a merciful god.

Eldrick my friend, you sound quite the authority on the Almighty. "He willingly allows...." "He could prevent if he wanted to..." "He looks on with indifference...."

My oh my, this is quite exciting, please share with us when you last met Him and discussed these things - you obviously have some deep inside knowledge. I have so many questions.....

Did He offer to explain His purpose?

Does He get a kick out of watching people suffer?

Is He such a tease as to dither over whether he should prevent something bad happening or not? Or does He go 'eeny, meeny, miney, mo'?

Did He actually say why he wasn't interested in what is going on in the world and couldn't care less, or that He was quite happy for us all to go to pot?

Please, I am on tenterhooks.....don't keep it to yourself.......spill. ;)

Yes, it is good that people question, but they need to be open and willing to listen to two sides of a discussion, and then the choice is theirs.

Many people blame God for the atrocities going in this world of ours, but that is the cop-out, not the idea of freewill. Mankind has an awful lot to answer for. All of us have an awful lot to answer for. :(

Wading in a bit :-)

" a god that willingly allows such things as child cancer, torture, rape, murder and all the other evil things that he could prevent if he wanted to but looks on with indifference, yet is concerned with what people do in the their bedrooms or with what they wear or eat......"

As do we ( as a species) !

Are we expecting God to step in and do what we, given the skills & compassion we possess, fail to do?

For example Eldrick, you mentioned child blindness caused by parasites... I recall being 14/15 and seeing a documentary/schools programme on that very topic. 45 years ago, we have put satellites in space, invented the internet, the mobile phone, flat screen tvs etc etc...and spent millions on destruction since then...and yet, we still as a species deny children clean parasite-free water

"God" as I see it is NOT concerned with what we eat or do in the bedroom...that is man's pigeonholing of something beyond his comprehension.

If I believe in God at all ( and I sometimes do) I don't believe in a God that expects us not to question, surely if that were the case we would be mere puppets without any capacity to reason or imagine for ourselves? In other words if God DID give us brains he expected us to do something with them, if he gave us imagination, skill, compassion, then ditto.

I can't answer SF or any aetheist as to 'Why' , but I am as open to the argument that because 'I' don't know something or can't explain something it makes it impossible.

Surely the diseases and destructions SF speaks of are men's creations ?
This planet they inhabit is his.

It IS the personality of God of which I speak.

I reiterate, the God of whom SF speaks is not the God I know and have known for many years.

I have, however, known of some wicked, corrupt and evil people who have chosen that path of wickedness for themselves, mainly for their own gain and destroying others in the process :-(

Sweet reason has prevailed

http://www.independent.co.uk/news/world/europe/stephen-fry-blasphemy-ireland-probe-investigation-dropped-police-gardai-not-enough-outrage-a7725116.html

There are many books on the market selling as quick or quicker than Bibles.
All attempting to "prove" God doesn't exist.
Their readers have almost convinced themselves to buy the book.
Are the authors similarly blasphemous ?