General Chat

The home of the recently "retired" Gerry Adams home has been petrol bombed :-|

There is a continuing need for people of 'good will' from all sides to reject the annual July 12th resurrection of violence & general irritation.

I have long been of the opinion that the July 12th marches to "celebrate" a

piece of history from 400 hundred years ago only reinforces the divisions in NI.

Adams is hated by many and feared by many more.

'Hate' is a nasty word. 'Dislike' is more acceptable when discussing any disagreeable politician.

The number of people over the years who have been intimidated by his. He who

always has a bodyguard while property is blown up, people shot, cannot be even

estimated. :-(

Also made an effective spokesperson

The English created the Irish problem with the "plantations" of Scottish presybterian settlers (occupiers) in the C17. Since then London has never bothered over much to understand pretty well anything about Ireland treating it not much differently to a nearby colony rather than an integral part of the UK. Unsurprisingly this failed big time leading to the current partition.

After 1922 the English took no lessons at all from their failure in 1922 which directly led to a resurgence of trouble starting in the late 60s. It was only brought to an uneasy peace thanks to the Good Friday Agreement.

The current government shows no sign whatsoever of understanding / caring about the island of Ireland still less its responsibilities as signatory to an international treaty. If it carries on as at the moment, hugger mugger with the DUP, direct rule from London for 18 months now, then indeed there will be difficulties. I am no fan of Gerry Adams and Sinn Fein but it is of no use laying anything that happens now at his door.

Hot headed nationalists see Adams as a traitor in a similar way to the manner in which hard line brexiters see May as somebody who has "sold out". The more that the London govt creates excuses the more incidents there will be. It is because of these people ( and their counterparts on the Unionist side) that Dublin insists on the letter of the G.F. agreement being applied.

There is no way in which the UK Govt can meet its obligations under the G.F. agreement, EU/Dublin demands for no kind of border controls between ROI and the 6 counties and avoiding travel controls at Irish Sea ports ( Stranraer, Liverpool, Holyhead, Fishguard ). There are controls at these ports anyway for livestock and animal products while ID is usually demanded.

Its best line of escape would be to let the 6 counties go and reunify Ireland. A big majority in NI voted remain and given demographic changes it will happen anyway within 20 years. Given obstinate and dishonest people such as Arlene Foster the rupture will be sooner rather than later.

Most people are unaware that ROI is bringing into service giant RO-RO ferries so that ROI - EU trade will no longer pass through the UK.
https://www.irishtimes.com/news/ireland/irish-news/brexit-busting-ferry-launched-from-dublin-port-1.3468760
Such measures leave Dublin in a strong position to veto any Brexit withdrawal agreement which it dislikes.

When the 12th July coincides with hot weather, there is always trouble...

Blimey, another cut and paste article!

What I've never been able to understand is how he can persistently deny

membership of an organisation he was until recently President of .

Surely Dublin isn't going to leave the EU? It's not in the UK.

I don't think that was said Maggie :-S

Surely Dublin as a member of the EU can veto whatever it sees fit

Not cut and paste.
Is Bob capable of a joined up argument rather than a half dozen words of sarcasm?
If I have given anybody the impression that Dublin is in the UK and/or wishes to leave the EU just try harder there is nothing between the lines.

Quite why the Tories are so desperate the please the Unionists I have never understood.

https://www.google.com/search?q=madame+george+lyrics&ie=utf-8&oe=utf-8&client=firefox-b

But I would have thought that would have to go through the European Court.

Sinn Fein deny that they have ever been responsible for terrorism hence G.A. and others can claim to be innocent. It is much the same with such people as Arlene Foster's late father.

They say that the dark deeds were committed by "others" over whom Ulster politicians may have "some" influence ... This charade has been the basis of getting to the Good Friday agreement in the first place and of course Blair's infamous indemnity letters.

Messy civil wars and insurgencies usually end up with bad men in positions of power and influence while good men push up daisies. So it has been since before Julius Caesar crossed the Rubicon and destroyed the Roman Republic. In the case of Ireland of course it was the River Boyne.

May is desperate to keep the DUP onside as without them she would be without a Commons majority when it matters. In doing so she is risking much higher stakes.

When the treaty was drawn up in 1918 the Scottish presybterians signed that they were the majority wanting take over the six counties but of course they were not the majority it was the catholics but the British government did not do anything about it and of course in 1922 Ireland became two country’s when the north became six counties. Derry became very important to us in WW2 because of the docks.

My mum was born in Donegal but during the was lived in Derry I think they must have moved there long before the was because she’s told me that has children they used go and watch the orange marches and there was no trouble

Linda is quite right - Northern Ireland does not include all of the six counties of Ulster otherwise there would not have been an Orange majority even in 1918.

It was not the docks of Derry which were vital to the Allied war effort but the location of Derry itself. The anti-submarine effort was run from underground bunkers near the city. The USA was in charge. Dublin closed its eyes and ears to the allies use of air and naval space in Donegal.

"Fields of Athenry - Paddy Reilly

By a lonely prison wall,
I heard a young girl calling
Michael they have taken you away,
For you stole Trevelyn's corn
So the young might see the morn,
Now a prison ship lies waiting in the bay
Low lie, The Fields Of Athenry
Where once we watched the small free birds fly
Our love was on the wing
We had dreams and songs to sing,
It's so lonely round the Fields of Athenry
By a lonely prison wall
I heard a young man calling
'Nothing matters Mary, when you're free'
Against the famine and the crown,
I rebelled, they brought me down
Now its lonely round the Fields of Athenry
By a lonely harbour wall
She watched the last star falling
As the prison ship sailed out against the sky
Sure she'll live in hope and pray
For her love in Botany Bay
It's so lonely round the Fields Of Athenry"

Drogheda was a staple, it held the cocket.

The religious divide in NI is lamentable. At the back of the division is politics.
Successive PM's since the 60's have regrettably failed to to quash the ugly
demonstrations that accompany the July marches. An entire generation has grown up
knowing no different :-(

A funny little story sorry if I’ve told it before my dad was in the fleet air arm and in 46-47 was stationed in Derry where I believe ferry airport now is Mum had left home and worked in a local cafe in Derry city and that’s where they met, they soon decided to get married but Mum being a catholic and dad a c/e her mother and brothers would have none of it so the took the big step of deciding to come over England dad would stay with his parents and Mum would stay down the road with their friends. The told no one because it would get back to family and they would stop them, anyway on the morning they went to the train station to get the train to Belfast and my granny was on the station to stop Mum from leaving but she still got the train and went later one of her older brothers who was working in Scotland sent her money not to marry dad I asked what she don with money and she replied I spent and you knew I marrieds your dad they married in the Catholic Church and my English grandad gave her away
They had 36 years together before dad died Mum has been a widow for nearly 33 years and is now 95

James Young summed it up in his poem The Papish and the Prod

https://youtu.be/pk9V55_cPSg