General Chat

Hi, I, too, believe that the world was created in 6 days. For a lot of years, I thought that Genesis was an 'outline'. However, after watching David Attenborough on his planet programme in 1979, when he commented that evolution had many problems (even tho he is an evolutionist), I started to think about it Humans are at a disadvantage to animals. If humans came down from the trees, they would be immediately overwhelmed by the wild animals (if you go on safari, you need vehicles and often guns) There is no evidence of links between species - or even within species. Darwin thought that as different breeds of dogs could be bred so it could between species. This is not the case - all hybrids are barren. 'Inbetween' animals could not survive, (by this I mean that eg birds could only survive when feathers are fully formed.) So all jumps between species are huge. I have never yet seen a wildlife programme where the comentator didn't say that these animals were well designed for their souroundings. Evolution only sets out to say 'how' things happened, it certaily can't say why. There a a number of scientists who are so opposed to the idea of God (Prof Richard Hawkins is one) that they start from the premise that there is no God, and therefore anyone who doesn't agree with them are wrong, and wont accept evidence which allows even the possibility of God. That's where I stand Anne

Hi Julia, You say, 'ANY group of people who seek to tell other people what to believe and then enforce this belief and way of teaching in schools are a dangerous and extreme bunch,...' The trouble is that this is only ever said of various religions. I think that people who insist that kids are taught nothing about religion/creation are doing exactly what they claim shouldn't be done. It is not possible to be 'neutral' on this issue. William

My father was a Baptist minister and a devout Christian. He was also extremely knowledgable about the Bible (he once rendered a couple of JWs speechless by saying, when they quoted the Bible to him, 'Yes, but when you take it back to the original Aramaic, the actual interpretation is...). He always told us that, when reading and trying to understand the Bible, you have to remember the context in which it was written. It was written in the Middle East a couple of thousand years ago. Whilst he believed implicitly that the Bible is the word of God, when applying it to our lives today we need to understand the history behind it and the culture of the people alive at the time. I am sorry I cannot explain better, and I am still struggling with what I believe in myself, but I think I believe that God has guided evolution. I do not see it as incompatible. Liz

Hi Gwynne, I am also a teacher – in a Christian school. Both creation and evolution are taught. Students are free to come to their own conclusions. I don’t know about the ID fanatics in the States – whether they want ID taught as fact with no discussion of evolution. If that’s what they want then, yes, I agree that is wrong. By all means discuss evolution – but not so blindly that it’s obvious flaws can’t be seen! Some would call me a fanatic! Regards, William

But William, a school isnt for religion, it is for knowledge and if that makes evolution something that should be banned from the classrooms then we are going to be lacking in scientists to probe into this area. I am not a scientist but the things that I have learnt over my lifetime lead me to beleive that I beleive that the theory of evolution holds more water than the claim of ID. Of curse, I stand to be corrected, but not by an extreme group who are acting like the thought police

Hi CB, You’re right to say that there will always be disagreement – but does that mean we should not seek the truth? – not our own perception of the truth but the actual truth. It does exist! Somebody else has commented on the Bible – I shall respond to you both in one reply. Regards! William

Gwynne, Didn't realise that about Darwin, thanks for putting me straight! You learn something new everyday don't you? Julie xxx

Hi Liz, You don't need to apologise, you explained yourself very well. This debate began on Lucia's thread about religion in schools. I said there that religion as fact has no place in any school. Children, in my view, should be taught about all major faiths, just as they should be presented with major scientific theories and should be given the thinking skills to decide for themselves. It isn't my job to tell them what to think or believe. I don't think anyone has that right. Gwynne (off to dry my hair now)

I don't believe in God, or an intelligent 'designer' of any kind. I think that mankind has a deep desire to feel that there is a purpose to everything and is largely unhappy with the idea that it all happened 'by accident'. I put my faith in science and reason, even if it doesnt answer every question or can prove every theory.

I added the above while others were typing. Nice to see that Wulliam and I agree on what I see as the main issue, people have a right to decide for themselves but should be presented with all the facts and theories. Gwynne (now really going to dry my hair)

Hi Mandy, You’re neglecting the possibility that God has chosen to tell us about himself. You’re assuming that all of these books are man’s attempt to understand God. The Bible was written over 1500 years, by numerous people of different cultures and languages. Some were kings, others shepherds. Some lived in tents, others in the most phenomenal palaces. Some had educations better than we have today – others learned all they knew from their parents. And despite this, it is all self-consistent. I know that people talk about the contradictions within scripture – but are they really there or are they red herrings? There are many versions of the Bible – most of them are identical in meaning. “I feel hungry” and “My tummy is rumbling” use different words but say precisely the same thing! Some people do misuse the Bible – who is at fault here? The author of the Bible – or the person misusing it? If put an electric heater in the bath, is the manufacturer to blame for my stupidity? Why blame God for people abusing his Word? May I suggest that you- and others – read the Bible?…perhaps starting with the book of Luke – followed by Acts. And however strange it may seem, pray beforehand and ask God (even if you don’t believe in Him) to help you understand it. “All Scripture is God breathed…” 2 Timothy 3:16 Kind regards, William

When I was at school (many years ago) we were taught that the 6 days were not days as we see them,but each day could have been thousands of years.So evolution could have been involved couldnt it ? MADDY

Maddy, that is what I believe. The 6 days were periods of time. The day of 24 hours as we know it did not exist then. Liz

Hi Julia, If a school is for knowledge but not religion, you imply that religion is not worthy of being counted as knowledge. I didn’t say that evolution should be banned from schools – I said that it should be treated as a theory…an unprovable theory with many, many problems. Most theories with such problems are thrown out very quickly. The reason that this one remains is that people don’t WANT to believe in God. Evolution is very comforting to them. In fact, it’s almost a religion… “Of course, I stand to be corrected, but not by an extreme group who are acting like the thought police” – Do you mean someone like Richard Dawkins who starts frothing at the mouth any time evolution is bad-mouthed? Regards, William

Hi Sheila, if we're a random collection of chances, where does this desire come from? William

William, religion isnt knowledge, it is an assumption, I know that you are now going to say that evolution, too, is an assumption, well if it is , at least it is an assumption that can be looked at scientifically. Off to do more packing!

Liz my son has an even stranger theory,he believes this world was used as a prison colony by aliens,and that we are the descendants of prisoners dumped on Earth by them.He reckons that all these sightings are aliens checking up on our progress.To each his own I say.!!! Maddy

Hi Maddy, Evolution as in slime to amoeba to bacteria to frogs to apes to humans (a gross over-simplification, I know) – no. Evolution as in mongrels breeding and resulting in daschunds, Labradors and huskies – yes. As I said in an earlier thread, God created the world perfect – there was no death. Evolution relies on death. Sin entered the world after the 6 days of creation – whether you think them long or short. Therefore, by the Bible’s account, evolution can’t have been used by God. Kind regards, William

Hi Julia, how can evolution be looked at scientifically. Science relies on reproducible results from identical experiments. It can't be done. 'Scientists' like Richard Dawkins claim that it can be done - he's a fine speaker and sounds very convincing. But everything he talks about is supposition. Regards, William PS Time for me to wash my hair too!

First of all I would like to say I agree with Gwynne re teaching religion/scientific theories in school. William you say evolution should be treated as a theory, so should ID until one or the other can be proved beyond a doubt. Juliexx