General Chat

Yes, David, it is very sad. Joy

You're right David, the whole thing is just so very sad. Anyone could make a mistake, and there are some wonderful single mums out there - but on the whole, discipline should be dealt out properly at home. A previous next door neighbour of mine had very unruly children and one day she whined to me 'How do you get yours to go to bed at bedtime?'. Because it's bedtime and there is no choice! I know they all have a go at messing about or coming back down, but my son always knew that bedtime meant going to bed - end of story, otherwise he'd be suitably punished. By no means am I a perfect mother, but if my son's school had disciplined him, and I knew for sure that they had got their facts right, then I would support them 100%. The only way the Government is to blame is by making things far too easy for girls who go out and get pregnant without a second thought, leaving the genuine people struggling to get what's due to them. Mandy :)

Hi David, as I said on another thread about this: did the mother ever tell these girls anything about sex, facts of life, birds and bees? Should have come from her first.

fair enough im not a teenager, but i was 20 when i found out i was pregnant. i had moved house and area therefore could not get a job whilst being pregnant - so my partner supported me. since having my daughter, yes i get benefits - but the ones i am entitled to receive as a mother. i was working before i even left school, and continued to do so until september 2003. I do intend to go back to work , but when i feel ready enough to leave my daughter. until then i suppose i am just 'another drain to everyones taxes then am i?'

Of course, the usual argument is that if you stop all the benefits, it,s the innocent children that suffer. You can,t apparently take the children into care, so what is the answer.? It will take a very strong politician indeed to come up with one. Indeed, and very sadly, I don,t think there is any answer other than a very slow moral uplift in the country on this and other aspects of life. happy days

Where does censure end and sympathy begin? Would a 12 year old rape victim who produced a child be vilified for accepting state benefits or would she be regarded as a damaged soul deserving of support? Regardless of the attitude they are portraying publicly two of those sisters were too emotionally immature to have fully understood the consequences of what they were playing at. The people who truly matter in all this are the babies that have been born and having their mothers pulled apart for producing them is not going to benefit them one iota. The girls should never have been having sex at that age but they certainly should not be ashamed of their babies. Those little people have as much right to a decent and comfortable upbringing as a child born of a planned conception to affluent ,middle class tax paying parents.

Teenage mums, If only. At 12 you're not even a teenager!! In this case, i think it's a child having a baby. Pat

Not only is it sad David, it's a diabolical liberty! The parent/s have ultimate responsibility for the children (not the government, the council, Uncle Tob Cobbley and all). The parents (or in this case I think the mother) should be the one to be taken to task (not her off-spring who are obviously just following their elder silblings lead, for wont of better example and things to do). The mother should be taken to task and punished accordingly - she is, in my view, an unfit parent; the fathers in question should be punished for breaking the law (underage sex etc) if applicable; the girls should have been counselled into perhaps the options available to them (rather than just allowed to give birth); The press should take partial responsibility for the fruhar that has arisen - there is no responsibility in highlighting the degredation of youth in the name of an eye-catching headline. It is a sorry state we live in when the youth of today are applauded for bringing into the world innocents infants with little 'chance' in life. and we as society should be ashamed that such things are allowed to proceed. Jacqui

From their earliest days, girls are encouraged to be 'sexy'. Have you seen the bras for sale in M&S etc?? They're for a 26 ' 'bust', made of shiny material, with matching knickers, and they are the ones that weren't withdrawn for being in bad taste!! I've even seen underwired 'bras' for 'busts' under 30'. At schools, it's only the girls who have to bring home the realistic baby doll - not the boys, thus confirming their 'get out' clause. Everyone talks about the girls learning the facts of life - it takes two!! I agree, more prosecutions for under-age sex, for both boys and girls, and a suitable punishment - perhaps working with special needs children would give them a real taste of what it's like to live in the real world, and more of a sense of responsibility. There are many things that contribute to teenage pregnancy - but it's mainly teenage boys, and pressure from society and the media (why have they 'glorified' this foolish family) for children to be mini adults. maggie

Annie No, you are definitely NOT one of those draining our resources. You and your partner are providing a loving, caring home for your daughter, where she is happy, settled and very much wanted. Just because you were a younger mum, that doesn't make you irresponsible. Being on benefits doesn't make you irresponsible either - you are claiming legitimate benefits and using them for the purpose for which they were intended. I also know what a huge battle you are having with the housing department! Mandy :) xx

Hiya Mandy I'm not criticising single parents either:) - I've friends and relatives who are single parents and they are just as good or as bad as partnered ones. Annie I'm not having a go at parents claiming benefits and sorry if my flippant comments gave that impression - I was irritated by the attitude of the girls when they said that they didn't need the fathers' financial involvement as if it was something they were proud of because they're not in fact supporting their kids - the state is. My sister is a single mother and has always worked, luckier than some in that she's had family help so that ain't an axe I've got to grind:)

Funny you should bring this up David.I was talking to my Mum who is 80 in a fortnight the other day.She said when she was 11 and started her periods she was very naive and frightened because she didnt understand what was happening to her because my grandmother had not told her, and when she went to my gran all she said was ask your older sister she will tell you what to do.Girls for ever and a day have faced this problem but the shock of it caused my Mums face to be paralysed on one side for a short while because she didnt expect it. The case in the paper today I dont know how the Mother can try to blame somebody else in this case Her Majestys government, surely a Mother like my Gran should have done should have led the girl in the right direction and taught her basic sex education.The case in the paper should have been once bitten twice shy when the youngest girl became pregnant surely the Mother should have been extra watchful on her two other daughters and made sure they had the right advice.Like I said my Mum was naive but she came through it and didnt have a child till she was married, Im not critiscising anybody who does because my wife was expecting our first child when she was 17 and we have been married over 35 years now these things happen.Im sorry but the Mother in the Paper is looking to blame anybody but herself! I dont know what the answer is to this because it has always happened maybe more now than before! As regards to girls not getting assistance when they have babies it is the right of everybody in ths country to have social care and help when in need and they should not be denied it. Davex

It was the 12 year old who had the first baby.

right sorry for that but the advice is just the same Wendy Davex

I do not think that child allowance should be paid to any mother who had a baby aged 15 or under. Why should she receive benefits because she disregarded the law? No council houses either, they can get to the back of the queue like everyone else. Technically, though - and this is where Bendy's what-if rape scenario comes in - sex with a 12-year old is rape. Not statutory rape, but full rape, whether by a boy also of 12 or a man of 40. As for the girl who was 16 when she got pregnant: it's her own stupid fault. Every 16-year-old is well aware how babies are made.

Agree with you completely Dave.

Twinkle so your idea not to pay family allowence to children under 15 who does that target the innocent baby! The first person to be protected is the innocent baby surely we cant deny them? Dave

Twinkle I agree with Bendy and Dave - the children shouldn't suffer for the sins of the parents. And don't we all mistakes at 16? I'm just glad I'm male:)

In any case of the pregnancy of an underage girl the father MUST recieve a swingeing punishment. As to the 'Care and support' aspect. It is not so many years ago that girls were put into Asylums if they got pregnant while single and were an even bigger drain on available resources than giving them a cash handout. I place the responsibility squarely on the shoulders of their Mother who has been criminally negligent in her care of her children.

Well said Jim! Dave