General Chat

Back in the 1960s there existed a publication called "the Children's Newspaper". Despite the Super Sabres and Boeing Superfortress in the skies above this newspaper reported the world was full of brotherly love.

It occupied itself with such things as handwriting competitions. I won one of these comps. using by best italic calligraphy. It took me years to adapt my wiriting speed to something fast enough to pass A levels and take notes at uni.

I still have some of the pens and nibs - I like ot keep my hand in with greetings cards and family trees.

'Joined-up' writing using a blunt worn-down pencil was considered an achievement of something or other during the last millennium when the quill was being upgraded, VAT free.

Praising children's achievements excessively was considered to do more harm than good, especially to those with low self-esteem.

"Rules are for the guidance of wise men and the obedience of fools".
Oft repeated maxim all the way back to Darius.

As fools are not in short supply and cheap the inevitable results are the turgid prose of the London Times and the ever more incomprehensible documents produced by HMG and the Civil Service.

Anybody writing for a living who relies on any "Style Guide" should consider alternative employment.

'The Times Style Guide' aims to provide writers & sub-editors with a quick reference to contentious points of grammar and spelling, and to guide them through areas where confusion has arisen in the past.

It is a guide, not a straitjacket. Consistency is a virtue, but it should not be pursued at the expense of clarity, elegance or common sense.'

(Opening introduction to the 2017 edition).

Any attempt to teach English grammar as a subject is doomed to failure. Whose grammar? Where? When?

Correct use of variations eg Scotland, Geordie, Yorkshire, Estuary is just as valid and correct as received pronunciation.

The grammar police will ruin children's lives and squeeze all creativity out of the language given the chance. Resist.

Lookup : e e cummings, concrete poetry

Sat, instead of sitting grrrrrr!!

'It's not possible to derive a rule of grammar from logical principles'.

I'm told that grammar is regaining its rightful place in some schools. There is some hope for the English language after all.

I think you'll find my piano playing and singing are much worse than bad grammar! :-D :-D :-D

because bad grammar causes the same pain as an out tune piano!!
or discordant singing...



to some!

....so why so many threads instructing everyone on the use of proper spelling and apostrophes? :-D

English grammar is not something that can be taught, only absorbed, in the main from rellies and school as part of every day learning and living. Lack of it is the major reason why a tiny proportion of the country, those who went to a good school or uni, hold 90% of the top jobs.

Your mileage may vary of course.

OMG....thought it was a case of dejavu....

new improved "original" shampoo....make your mind up!..

I agree, Shirley. My current irritations are "more bigger" and qualifying the word unique. Something is either unique or it isn't! It can't be more unique or quite unique or, worst of all, almost unique. :-|

I like local dialects, even though some of the expressions sound odd to a stranger, but they should not be used on TV programmes like the National News, which should be intelligible to all.

A very old thread but I still think good grammar is polite

Sadly lots of it has been lost with text speak etc and laziness

I sometimes struggle with grammar when posting and have to go back and amend with the tenses .its not helped when my iPad wants to correct my postings

I love the differences in dialects and local sayings and these can alter grammatics

Apologies for resurrecting this very old quality thread - the topic is still my favourite insanity.

Sir John Cheke (1514-1557) was an English classical scholar who wrote:

'I am of this opinion that our own tung should be written cleane and pure, unmixt and unmangeled with borrowing of other tunges; wherein if we take not heed by tiim, ever borrowing and never paying, she shall be fain to keep her house as bankrupt'.

I seem to remember there was some argument about split infinitives, was 'to boldly go' bad, 'boldly to go' OK, or both wrong?!!!

Yes, Kieth, you have made a good point there - no-one has actually answered the question, a matter that I will now correct: yes, it does. It is easy for people to say, 'Oh, the language has to be allowed to develop...' or 'Grammar (and spelling) are not important in an evolving language...' and other such claptrap. That is really the excuse of the idle. The most recent language to evolve is Creole. It was created by one generation; the next generation then created grammar and syntax for it. If grammar and syntax are not important, why did the originators (ostensibly uneducated slaves) of the language use them? Ah, Joy! The joy (pun intended) of tautology. The much over-used (and usually totally unnecessary) word 'got'. Give yourself a challenge, and every time you use the word 'got' try repeating the sentence with the word removed. You will probably find that it makes no difference at all, and that rather unpleasant-sounding word can be consigned to the 'to be used sparingly' bin. To judge by the use of language in the two most powerful media we are exposed to (television and films), the English language is rapidly deteriorating into a coarse series of guttural grunts. Perhaps we are creating a modern Tower of Babel. Rob

This is a great thread. We all have our favourite hates! Mine was some years ago at a county show. The announcer, putting on a 'posh' voice, announced the arrival of 'THE OT HAIR BALLOON'. It took me ages to calm down! Anne

I have just caught up with this thread. All very interesting, but I don't think anyone has actually answered Bob's question ( CB and Geoff almost did, I think ). I too have no wish to see the English language, that I have spent so long trying to get to grips with, disappear into an abyss. I am quite appalled at the incomprehensible variations that some members of our society have imposed upon it. But can any of us say that in today's society anyone is going to be significantly disadvantaged as a result of their improper use of grammar?

I used to know a lovely Italian man who asked me what is this word 'got'?! as in I have got. Joy