Military Chat

Top tip - using the Genes Reunited community

Welcome to the Genes Reunited community boards!

  • The Genes Reunited community is made up of millions of people with similar interests. Discover your family history and make life long friends along the way.
  • You will find a close knit but welcoming group of keen genealogists all prepared to offer advice and help to new members.
  • And it's not all serious business. The boards are often a place to relax and be entertained by all kinds of subjects.
  • The Genes community will go out of their way to help you, so don’t be shy about asking for help.

Quick Search

Single word search

Icons

  • New posts
  • No new posts
  • Thread closed
  • Stickied, new posts
  • Stickied, no new posts

Josiah Edwin Austin

Page 0 + 1 of 2

  1. 1
  2. 2
  3. »
ProfilePosted byOptionsPost Date

ErikaH

ErikaH Report 1 Jul 2024 21:13

PM sent advising OP of need to monitor thread. OPENED

ArgyllGran

ArgyllGran Report 27 Jun 2024 09:21

1902 court record:

Joseph Charles Austin
in the UK, Calendar of Prisoners, 1868-1929
Name Joseph Charles Austin
Trial Age 33
Birth Date abt 1869
Trial Date 15 Oct 1902
Trial Place Winchester, Hampshire, England
Occupation Soldier
Charge Stealing
Sentence 2 calendar months

The image of the typed record says he was charged with:
"Stealing a letter containing £21, the property of Charles Godfrey Martyr, at Aldershot on the 18th September 1902, and feloniously receiving, well knowing same to have been stolen."




Cyril Godfrey Martyr
in the UK, British Army Records and Lists, 1882-1962
Name Cyril Godfrey Martyr
Rank Lieutenant Colonel
Birth Date 5 Aug 1860
Military Year Oct 1902
Record Type List


Also some Fold3 records of C G Martyr in the Duke of Cornwall's Light Infantry in earlier years, serving in the Sudan and elsewhere.

ArgyllGran

ArgyllGran Report 27 Jun 2024 09:00

On 15 Oct 1902, the Portsmouth Evening News apparently named him as Charles Joseph Austin (though I'm only looking at a transcription):


A COLOUR-SERGEANT SENT TO GCAL
Charles Joseph Austin, 33. a colour-sergeant in the Hampshire Regiment, was brought up for sentence on charge of stealing letter containing £2l, the property of the commanding officer, Colonel Cyril Godfrey, Aldershot . . .

Published: Wednesday 15 October 1902
Newspaper: Portsmouth Evening News
County: Hampshire, England

Jink20

Jink20 Report 26 Jun 2024 22:39

Greyghost.........one minor correction to your post.
He joined the 3rd Battalion ((Batt'n) Hampshire Regiment. ie infantry
Battery is a term used within Artillery Regiments

greyghost

greyghost Report 26 Jun 2024 22:28

Various newspaper articles under name Joseph Charles Austin

15 Oct 1902 Portsmouth Evening News
Colour Sergeant sent to Goal
The letter he stole + £21 belonged to the Commanding officer Colonel Cyril Godfrey at aldershot on Sept. 18th.
Prisoner said that by the verdict of the jury he was reduced to the ranks and discharged with disgrace and would lose £30 and asked the Chairman to take this into consideration. The chairman expressed powwow at seeing the prisoner in such a position on passing a sentence od 2 months hard labour.

-----
25 oct 1902
....33, orderly room sergeant in a provisional battalion at Aldershot. .... Prisoners defence was that the money was lost through his neglect, but he had never used any of it himself, and he delayed to report the matter lest he should have been court martially for neglect. He had 10 years good character as a non-0commissioned officer. HE was found guilty and recommended to mercy. Sentence of 2 months hard labour was passed.

greyghost

greyghost Report 26 Jun 2024 22:03

Attested age 18y 3m born parish of St Andrews, Plymouth. He was a Clerk before joining. Attested at Winchester, currently with 3 Battalion (word edited) Hants Regiment.
5' 4 ¾ ", 129 Ibs, Chest 33", Complexion fresh, Eyes Hazel, Hair Dark Brown, CofE

Appointed Orderly Room Sergeant 1.1.1900, posted, Promoted to Colour Sergeant 1.4.1901
In custody with civil power 3.10.1902 Tried and convicted by civil powers of felony 15.10.02, sentenced to 2 months imprisonment and sent to prison that date.
Reduced to ranks on conviction by civil powers on 5.11.1902 under authority WO 105/37/10
Discharged under Para 1805 (6) K.R.

----------------

Even today, I expect, a member of the Armed fForces, convicted by a civil court is liable to "Consequential punishment" by his own Service. Was certainly the case in the 1970's !

ArgyllGran

ArgyllGran Report 26 Jun 2024 21:42

That's very close to his alias of Josiah Charles Austin, as shown in the court records posted earlier.

ErikaH

ErikaH Report 26 Jun 2024 20:37

Using that Soldier number, his attestation into Hampshire Regiment on 21 Mar 1889 is with the names JOSEPH CHARLES Austin, age 18yrs, 4months
Associated records are attached.
On FMP…………

Jink20

Jink20 Report 26 Jun 2024 20:08

UK, Military Campaign Medal and Award Rolls, 1793-1949

Name J Austin
Service Date 1899-1902
Service Place South Africa
Campaign or Service South Africa-Second Boer War
Regiment or Unit Name 2nd Battalion Hampshire
Regimental Number 2771

image states rank as Sgt

Entitiled to Clasp- Paardeberg, Cape Colony

issued 1st April 1901

ArgyllGran

ArgyllGran Report 26 Jun 2024 13:09

Jink
yes, of course you're right re penal servitude.

I knew "prison sentence" didn't sound right, but couldn't think of an alternative!

ErikaH

ErikaH Report 26 Jun 2024 13:03

In 1901, Emily was in Winchester, at the Regimental Depot, described as ‘wife of Sgt Austin’

There are NO Military records for him other than Medal cards, which relate to WW!

ErikaH

ErikaH Report 26 Jun 2024 12:59

His marriage record on FMP shows that he said he was a L/Cpl in the 2nd Hampshire Regiment. This was 10 Sep 1893

greyghost

greyghost Report 26 Jun 2024 12:46

The newspaper report says that he was sentenced to 3 years penal servitude

Jink20

Jink20 Report 26 Jun 2024 12:24

And in case you didn't have them


1921 Census Of England & Wales
12, Richmond Terrace, Avonmouth, Bristol, Gloucestershire, England

Josiah Edwin Austin Head Male 1869 51 Plymouth, Devon, England Lighhouse Keeper Bristol Corporation, Bristol

Emily Austin Wife Female 1876 45 Portsmouth, Hampshire, England Home Duties -

Eva E Austin Daughter Female 1901 19 Aldershot, Hampshire, England Carboard Box Maker J S Fry & Sons Ltd

Nora K Austin Daughter Female 1909 12 Avonmouth, Gloucestershire, England

Arthur R Austin Son Male 1910 10 Avonmouth, Gloucestershire, England

-------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
1939 Register
30 Marshalls Way, Lea Valley, St Albans R.D., Hertfordshire, England

Charles P J Bloodworth 09 Nov 1913 Male Baker Foreman Married 66 1
Winifred M Bloodworth 04 Aug 1912 Female Unpaid Domestic Duties Married 66 2
The record for this person is officially closed.

Josiah E Austin 28 Nov 1869 Male Lighthouse Keeper Retired Married 66 4
Emily Austin 08 May 1876 Female Unpaid Domestic Duties Married 66 5

Jink20

Jink20 Report 26 Jun 2024 11:58

AG- Just a thought, could the PS reference = Penal Servitude

Jink20

Jink20 Report 26 Jun 2024 11:38

First name(s) Josiah Edwin
Theatre of war 1
Last name Austin
Theatre of war description Western Europe
Disembarkation year 1915
Remarks Cl. Z. 15.2.19.
Disembarkation date 12 Oct 1915
Archive The National Archives
Rank -
Archive series WO 329
Rank as transcribed A/S.
Archive reference WO 329/2843
Service number 335239
Record set Britain, First World War Campaign Medals
Regiment Labour Corps
Category Military, armed forces & conflict
Previous unit 10. Bn. Glos. Rgt. Gloucester Rgt. 2390. Cpl.
Subcategory First World War
Medals awarded 1914-15 Star

Jink20

Jink20 Report 26 Jun 2024 11:35

I appriciate this is not 2nd Hampshire's information, as requested, but I thought it may be of some use to you. If, of course, it's your Josiah Austin

Medal card of Austin, Josiah E. Corps: Gloucestershire Regiment. Regiment No: 2390. Rank: Corporal.

War Office: Service Medal and Award Rolls Index, First World War. Alezu A - Barnes C E. Medal card of Austin, Josiah E. Corps Regiment No Rank Gloucestershire Regiment 2390 Corporal. Labour Corps 335239 Acting Serjeant.

Held by: The National Archives, Kew - War Office, Armed Forces, Judge Advocate General, and related bodies
Date: 1914 - 1920
Reference: WO 372/1/155791
Subjects: Armed Forces (General Administration) | Army | Conflict | Medals | Operations, battles and campaigns

Jink20

Jink20 Report 26 Jun 2024 11:21

The National Archives hold records of Courts Martial.
If you haven't already done so, may I suggest registration with TNA ( Free) and once signed in you can research

https://www.nationalarchives.gov.uk/help-with-your-research/research-guides/courts-martial-desertion-british-army-17th-20th-centuries/#9-trials-of-non-commissioned-officers-and-other-ranks-1688-1986

For example:

Reference: WO 90/6
Description: Judge Advocate General's Office: general courts martial registers, abroad
Date: 1900-1917
Held by: The National Archives, Kew
Legal status: Public Record(s)
Closure status: Open Document, Open Description

Not all the records on the TNA website are available to view online, some require a request submission to Kew.
----------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Also consider contacting the Battalion museum. They have a research option

https://www.royalhampshireregiment.org/research/

ArgyllGran

ArgyllGran Report 26 Jun 2024 10:21

I don't see any army info for him on Ancestry, apart from this possible WW1 record:

Josiah Edwin Austin
in the UK, World War I Service Medal and Award Rolls, 1914-1920
Name Josiah Edwin Austin
Military Year 1914-1920
Rank Sergeant
Company WO 329
Regiment or Corps Labour Corps
Regiment Number 335239
Medal Awarded British War Medal and Victory Medal

greyghost

greyghost Report 26 Jun 2024 10:21

From local papers, but maybe this is where you got the information about his Army
"problem"

Not seeing any Service records for him

Hampshire Telegraph 6 August 1904 (same wording in the Evening News, 3 August (Portsmouth where they are reporting Portsmouth Quarter sessions)

A Heavy Sentence

Josiah Edwin Austin, 35, a clerk, pleaded guilty to feloniously stealing £28, the property of W.T. Avery Ltd, his employers at Portsmouth, on March 17th. - Mr S H Emmanuel for the prosecution, stated that the prisoner's crime was the more serious as he had abused a position of trust and had sought to throw blame on other persons. The police reported that the prisoner had been convicted of embezzlement while a colour sergeant in the Army, and Detective Inspector M|oore stated that after the theft the prisoner absconded from Portsmouth, and left his wife and children almost destitute. The prisoner subsequently gave himself up tp the police at Sheffield. The prisoner was sentenced to 3 years penal servitude.