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I'm looking for my Great granddad John Blay c1877.
He first appears on the 1901 Census as a boarder with the Bye family (12,Noble Street, Clerkenwell).
His age is given as 23,
Occupation Sawyer,
Born Clerkenwell.
He marries Susannah Eliza Bye (from that household) in 1903.
On the Marriage Cert he has given his Fathers name as Thomas(Deceased) whose Occupation was Lamp Maker.
He is still living at 12,Noble Street with his wife & in laws & 3 children from their marriage in the 1911 Census.
There are no births 1875-1879 for a John in Clerkenwell.
John Henry Blay -Croydon is not him (he's in the 1901 Census elsewhere)
I cannot find a John in th 1881/91 census with a Thomas either.
Can anyone help?!!!
Many thanks.

Calharne, you're as confusing as someone else I could mention.

The John Blay we're looking for would have been 4ish in 1881, not 28, and the John Blay we're looking for (allegedly) had father Thomas.

?


oops, speak of the devil ......... !

All that info is in the opening post, Ann o' GG.

Susanna Eliza Bye
England and Wales Census, 1881
birth: 1878 — Clerkenwell
christening:
baptism:
death:
burial:
residence: 1881 — Clerkenwell, London, Middlesex, England
parents:
spouse:
child:
marriage:

record title: England and Wales Census, 1881
name: Susanna Eliza Bye
age: 3
gender: Female
birth year: 1878
birthplace: Clerkenwell
relationship to head of household: Daur
address: 8 1/2 William Street
census place: Clerkenwell, London, Middlesex, England
record type: Household
family history library film: 1341076
the national archives reference: RG11
piece / folio: 0350 / 16
page number: 25

hi there Janey!!!!

Ann,

The poster has already said that the Croydon John Blay is not the one she is looking for.

Kath. x

Thomas Blay
England and Wales, Non-Conformist Record Indexes (RG4-8)
birth:
christening:
baptism:
death:
burial: 12 Apr 1798 — Clerkenwell, London
residence:
parents:
spouse:
child:
marriage:

record title: England and Wales, Non-Conformist Record Indexes (RG4-8)
name: Thomas Blay
event type: Burial
burial date: 12 Apr 1798
burial place: Clerkenwell, London
record set: RG4_4318

oops!!!

If it weren't for the age difference I'd like this one. I still might. ;)


1881

Name: John Blay
Age: 8
Estimated Birth Year: abt 1873
Where born: Marylebone, Middlesex, England

Civil parish: St Marylebone
County/Island: London
Street Address: 22 Stafford Street
Registration district: Marylebone

Emma Wilder 60
John Blay 8


1891

Name: John Blay
Age: 18
Estimated Birth Year: abt 1873
Relation: Nephew
Where born: St Mary Le Bow, London, England

Civil parish: Paddington
Ecclesiastical parish: St Peter
County/Island: London

Michael Gordon 40
Elna Gordon 39
John Blay 18


Do you have any other confirmation of his age -- marriage certficate?

... but in 1891 that one is a printer's compositor, so not likely ...

Thanks for some of the replies!!
Ann please don't waste you time on the Byes as I have lots of info on them.
Another option is that he is using his Middle name as an adult & not the name on his birth record.
So I know it is going to be like looking for a needle in a haystack!!
But thanks folks for looking & taking the time to reply.
Sharon

For reference - 1911 census -

BYE, George Head Widower M 69 1842 Cale Driver St Pamcras
BYE, Frederick Son Single M 24 1887 Porter Clerkenwell
BYE, Thomas Gr Son M 10 1901 Clerkenwell
BLEY, John Head Married M 32 1879 Picture Frame Maker Clerkenwell
BLAY, Susannah Wife Married
7 years F 33 1878 Clerkenwell
BLAY, Doris Daughter F 4 1907 Clerkenwell
BLAY, John Son M 2 1909 Clerkenwell
BLAY, Kathleen Daughter F 0 (3 WEEKS) 1911 Clerkenwell
RG number:
RG14 Piece:
1232 Reference:
RG14PN1232 RG78PN42 RD14 SD2 ED17 SN521

Registration District:
Holborn Sub District:
Clerkenwell Enumeration District:
17 Parish:
St James and St John Clerkenwell

Address:
12 Noble ST County:
London

Name: John Blay
Age: 26
Estimated Birth Year: abt 1877
Spouse Name: Susanna Bye
Spouse Age: 26
Record Type: Marriage
Marriage Date: 02 Aug 1903
Parish: St Pancras Old Church
County: London
Borough: Camden
Father Name: Thomas Blay
Spouse Father Name: George Bye

Janey - i only have what he's given on the 1901 & 1911 Census.
His marriage cert is just "Full Age
Sorry!

Might he have been William John Blay?


1891

Name: William J Blay
Age: 12
Estimated Birth Year: abt 1879
Relation: Son
Father's Name: Thomas H Blay
Mother's Name: Emma J Blay
Where born: Chelsea, London, England

Civil parish: Chelsea
County/Island: London

Thomas H Blay 38
Emma J Blay 38
William J Blay 12


Thomas's occupation was Grave Digger.

I can see someone fudging that when he married. ;)


Nope, that one was:

Births Dec 1878
Blay William James Chelsea 1a 349


Ruled out! Probably ...

Marriage cert says age 26

jax

-Just wondering if parents not married when he was born

-------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Marriages Jun 1885 --------------------------------------------------------------------------------

BARTLETT Annie St. Saviour 1d 142
Blay Thomas - St. Saviour 1d 142
Doust Eliza St.Saviour 1d 142
Puxty Henry St. Saviour 1d 142

Sorry about that - the Marriage was from memory (can't access records saved on Ancestry as haven't renewed!!) but at the end of the day it still makes his birth 1877!!

Leap in the dark but putting it here in case needed later....



John Bartlett --------------------------------------
Birth:
Christening: 18 NOV 1877 Southwark, Surrey, England

--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Parents:
Father: James Bartlett

Mother: Ann

That's certainly my first theory in such cases, Mike -- parents not married at time of birth ... if ever. ;)

It means that the person could be hiding in early censuses under a stepfather's name, for instance. The father's name on the marriage certificate could be, or be any combination (given name / surname) of, the maternal grandfather, the real father, a stepfather, or a figment of the imagination. ;)

"Lamp maker" is a pretty specific job description though, so it suggests that someone was real somewhere along the way.

Or, Mike:

Births Mar 1876
Bartlett John William Holborn 1b 799

Clerkenwell = Holborn reg dist

The John from croydon had a father called Thomas and mother Ann

jax