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I am trying to find relatives of Arnold Butler, who died in Conway, Caernarvonshire, in 1971 aged 65. He was the husband of Milicent (MIllicent?) Porkess, whom he married in Glanford Brigg in 1930. I have been unable to find records of any children.
Arnold was born in Crosby, Lincoln, in 1906, the son of George William Butler and Florence Kendall.
Florence committed suicide around 1930. Probate records list her as a widow. However, I have proof that her husband was alive and living in Canada in 1922, where he married again and lived until his death at age 82 in 1961.
My goal is to find living relatives who may have heard family stories about this apparent contradiction. Many thanks to anyone who can help.

David

I have absolutley no connection to your fmaily


I do however have some suggestions for you.



IF George William left Florence, and moved abroad .......... it is entirely possible that she would describe herself as widow to people who did not know her.



Many people researching their ancestors have found that this has happened ...... it is far from uncommon.



It does sound much better to say one is a widow than a deserted wife, doesn't it???!!!

If she moved to another town, or another part of a large town, no-one would know any different, and she could live her life as a respectable widow, not a scorned wife ............. which would have been a social disgrace in those days.

Information on a death certificate is only that which is known to the informant ....... and I presume that information given to a solicitor etc regarding marital status is also likely to maintain the fiction.



sylvia

Have you tried a search on this site to see if anyone else is looking for the family, it may help if you add "Canada" to your heading,
Good luck,
Liz

Deaths Dec 1929 (>99%)
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BUTLER Florence I 50 Glanford B 7a 734

I can't find these people on 1911 census...........was hoping to find out if Arnold had any siblings

Marriages Jun 1905 (>99%)
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Butler George William Glanford B 7a 1822
KENDALL Florence Isabel Glanford B. 7a 1822

Did Arnold ahve any other names??

I cannot find a birth for an Arnold Butler in Lincolnshire in 1906, but there is this one


England & Wales, FreeBMD Birth Index, 1837-1915

Name: Arnold Charles K Butler
Year of Registration: 1906
Quarter of Registration: Apr-May-Jun
District: Glanford Brigg
County: Lincolnshire
Volume: 7a
Page: 690 (click to see others on page)



sylvia

YES!


Marriages Dec 1930 (>99%)

Butler Arnold C K Porkess Glanford B 7a 1677
Porkess Millicent Butler Glanford B. 7a 1677



oh, it does make it easier when you have the full names!!!




sylvia

what's the betting this is them


I don't have a sub, but this is by doign the free search

HOUSEHOLD BUTTER FLORENCE ISABEL F 1880 31 Glanford Brigg Lincolnshire
HOUSEHOLD BUTTER ARNOLD M 1906 5 Glanford Brigg Lincolnshire



looks as though Mr has already gone?!



sylvia

Well done Sylvia!!!!!!

Census 1911:

KENDALL, George Head Married 53 years M 79 1832 Farmer Linc Ashby .
KENDALL, Catherine Wife Married F 73 1838 Lincs Scunthorpe .
>>BUTTER, Florence Isabel Daughter Married 6 years F 31 1880 Assistant Stonekeeper Lincs Ffrodingham .
>>BUTTER, Arnold Grandson M 5 1906 Lincs Cosby .
SOMDERSON, Hugh Grandson Single M 19 1892 Farm Labourer Lincs Scunthorpe .

--------------------------------------------------------------------------------

RG number:
RG14 Piece:
20089 Reference:
RG14PN20089 RG78PN1201 RD424 SD2 ED22 SN16B

Registration District:
Glanford Brigg Sub District:
Winterton Enumeration District:
22 Parish:
Bottesford

Address:
Bottesford County:
Lincolnshire

EDIT: George and Catherine Kendall had 10 children of their marriage; only 6 still living at time of census 1911.

Birth: Porkess Milicent Glanford B. 7a 695 JFM 1906.

Milicent in 1911:

PORKESS, Thomas Head Widow M 54 1857 Retired - Butcher Winterton .
PORKESS, Emily Wife Married 30 years F 57 1854 Winterton.
>>PORKESS, Milicent Granddaughter Single F 5 1906 Burton on Stathers .

--------------------------------------------------------------------------------

RG number:
RG14 Piece:
20076 Reference:
RG14PN20076 RG78PN1201 RD424 SD2 ED9 SN62

Registration District:
Glanford Brigg Sub District:
Winterton Enumeration District:
9 Parish:
Burton upon Stather

Address:
Burton on Stather Doncaster County:
Lincolnshire


I was wondering whether you could trace siblings and their descendants, of Milicent, but this doesn't look promising!!!

Thomas and Emily only had two children of their marriage, both still living in 1911. One of them must have been Milicent's parent.

Found Florence with Arnold in 1911

KENDALL, GEORGE HEAD MARRIED 53 M 79 FARMER LINC ASHBY
KENDALL, CATHERINE WIFE MARRIED F 73 LINCS SCUNTHORPE
BUTTER, FLORENCE ISABEL DAUGHTER MARRIED 6 F 31 ASSISTANT STONEKEEPER LINCS FFRODINGHAM
BUTTER, ARNOLD GRANDSON M 5 LINCS COSBY
SOMDERSON, HUGH GRANDSON SINGLE M 19 FARM LABOURER LINCS SCUNTHORPE


Florence and Arnold transcribed as Butter.

Thanks Kucinta!


I hoped someone with a sub would be able to find them from that


Now as for George William ............ there are several George William Butlers living in Lincolnshire, BUT ...




I still think she called herself a widow, when she wasn't and knew that she wasn't





sylvia

The probate of the will



England & Wales, National Probate Calendar (Index of Wills and Administrations),1861-1941

Name: Florence Isabel Butler
Probate Date: 30 Aug 1930
Death Date: 11 Oct 1929
Death Place: Lincolnshire, England
Registry: Lincoln



from image:-

Butler Florence Isabel of 24 Henderson Avenue Scunthorpe and Frodingham Lincolnshire, widow, died 11 October 1929. Administration [granted] Lincoln 30 August [1930] to Arnold Charles Kendall Butler bank clerk. Effects £200 0s 3d




so the only "evidence" that she was a widow is that, and whatever she told people





sylvia

Does anyone have access to records of arrivals in Canada, so we could maybe pinpoint when George William Butler arrived there?

The marriage seems to have been over pretty quickly if the 1911 census is anything to go by. George probably figured with the ocean between them, he could put his first family behind him and start anew.

And as has been said nearer the beginning of the thread, it was probably easier for Florence to become a 'widow'.

You could probably try and trace some of Florence's sibs in earler censuses with the data provided on George, Catherine and Florence Kendall, and then try tracing their living descendants, but chance's are these events are so long ago they won't know anything much about them.

???????????????/


from findmypast passenger lists ................. again, I don't have a sub on there


BUTLER George W Unknown M 1909 Southampton USA New York VIEW VIEW
BUTLER George W Unknown M 1909 Southampton USA New York VIEW VIEW




sylvia

Wow, if that's 'your' George W, Sylvia's found, the marriage really was over fast!!!

Kucinta


searching passenger arrivals into Canada is not easy

...... they're not indexed until about 1922, so you have to know which port, in which province they arrived, then search the passenger lists ship by ship


so you need to know if they went to Halifax, Montreal, Quebec City, St John New Brunswick, Sydney Nova Scotia, maybe St Johns Newfoundland


and then a passenger could have gone to the US first, then crossed the border into Canada (some people emigrating to the US went to Canada first, as well)





we need david to return and see what he says!





sylvia

Well, I still think you've done a good job identifying a possible emigration from England for George.

If he was in Canada by 1922, then from what you say it looks as if it will be hard to track down what he did and where he went between the breakup with Florence and when David has evidence for him living in Canada.

Thanks for explaining the difficulty about searching records for immigration into Canada.

Florence ans several sibs in 1881:

Name: Florence Isabell Kendall
Age: 1
Estimated birth year: abt 1880
Relation: Daughter
Father's name: George Kendall
Mother's name: Catherine Kendall
Gender: Female
Where born: Frodingham, Lincoln, England

Civil Parish: Frodingham
County/Island: Lincolnshire
Country: England

Registration district: Glanford Brigg
Sub-registration district: Winterton
ED, institution, or vessel: 15
Neighbors: View others on page
Household Members: Name Age
George Kendall 48
Catherine Kendall 42
Joseph Henry Kendall 20
Martha Jane Kendall 16
George Albert Kendall 13
William Thomas Kendall 11
Annie Laura Kendall 8
Arthur John Kendall 5
>>Florence Isabell Kendall 1
George Boothby 19