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Could someone please check for me that I have the correct Mansfield? I have just received a birth cert and it states the mother is Elizabeth. I have her on the census as Ellen. I have I think traced her through her children going back from 1901.

1901 - Thomas Mansfield born abt 1852 Lambeth wife Eliza abt 1856 + children Eliza, Fred and Thomas.
1891 – Thomas age 30 and Eliza age 35 + children Thomas and Eliza
1881 – Thomas Mansfield age 30 and Eliza age 24 (waiting for Marraige Cert)
Then 1871:
Ellen Mansfield abt 1829 with children Thomas age 20 abt 1851 and brother George abt 1858 but no father. Thomas’s birth cert says mother Elizabeth nee Mackendret (looks like)father Thomas Mansfield (Greengrocer)

Karen this is from the 1861 census; do you think this is the family you are looking for?

Name: Thomas Mansfield
Age: 36
Estimated Birth Year: abt 1825
Relation: Head
Spouse's Name: Elizabeth
Gender: Male
Where born: City Read London

Civil Parish: Lambeth
Ecclesiastical parish: St John
County/Island: Surrey
Country: England
Registration district: Lambeth
Sub-registration district: Brixton
ED, institution, or vessel: 6
Neighbors: View others on page
Household schedule number: 107
Household Members:
Name Age
Charlotte Mansfield 10 Mo
Elizabeth Mansfield 32
Elizabeth Mansfield 10
Henry Mansfield 6
John Mansfield 4
Merghan Mansfield 3
Thomas Mansfield 36 occupation Green Grocer
Thomas Mansfield 7

Catherine

I'm not sure. This Thomas age 7 may be slightly too old and is born in Brixham - I may have requested his birth certificate!! or this may be the correct one and I have all the wrong census!!! What is soo confusing is that around the time my Thomas Mansfield was born in Lambeth there were lots of other Thomas Mansfields born as well!

Karen the only Thomas Mansfield I can find born Lambeth between 1850-1855 is in Jun qtr Jun 1853 Vol 1d Page 1853.

I've also found the following marriage in Dec qtr 1847 Newington Vol 4 Page 417

Mansfield Thomas
Mackendret Elizabeth

Yes that's the name I have on the birth certificate - perhaps the 1871 census I have pulled is the wrong one. I'll re check that.
I have only recently started doing family trees and so far I've been lucky on what I've been searching eveythings checked out - this one has just confused me - thankyou for helping me.

Karen

What date of birth is the certificate?

Catherine

The date is 17 May 1853

karen

I think that Thomas Mansfield b 1853 married Jane Wood in Jun qtr 1874 Lambeth rather than Eliza

1881 census
Name: Thomas Mansfield
Age: 29
Estimated Birth Year: abt 1852
Relation: Head
Spouse's Name: Jane
Gender: Male
Where born: Lambeth, Surrey, England

Civil Parish: Lambeth
County/Island: London
Country: England

Street address: 1 Russell Gards
Condition as to marriage: Married
Occupation: Fishmonger

Registration district: Lambeth
Sub-registration district: Kennington Second
ED, institution, or vessel: 14
Neighbors: View others on page
Household Members:
Name Age
Jane Mansfield 38
Thomas Mansfield 29
Thomas Mansfield 6
William Wood 16

Catherine

I don't think this is the right one I know his son born abt 1881 Thomas J Mansfield died in 1917 and he had married an Eliza Young who was born in Plimico.

And from I'm told Thomas abt 1852 worked at the potteries in Lambeth?

Have you got a copy of Thomas & Eliza's Marriage Cert yet as this will show Thomas' father's occupation. It could be that you have the wrong birth certificate

I should have it in the next few days,

Karen

Hi

I now have Thomas Mansfield and Eliza Youngs marriage cert which show they were married 17/05/1880 in Lambeth ages look like 29 and 24. He was a Potters Burner. I can find them in the 1881 census. But I can't find his birth. The certificate I ordered was for a Thomas Mansfield born 17/05/1853 in Lambeth - this would make him too young for the marraige cert I have.

I would be grateful if someone could check for me.

Thanks

Is this him in 1871?1871 England Census
about Thomas Mansfield
Name: Thomas Mansfield
Age: 20
Estimated Birth Year: abt 1851
Relation: Son
Mother's Name: Ellen
Gender: Male
Where born: Lambeth, Surrey, England
Civil Parish: Lambeth
Ecclesiastical parish: St Mary The Less
County/Island: London
Country: England
Street address:

Occupation:

Condition as to marriage:

Disability: View Image
Registration district: Lambeth
Sub-registration district: Lambeth Church First
ED, institution, or vessel: 13
Household schedule number: 192
Household Members: Name Age
Elizabeth Clowder 12
Emma Clowder 4
Harriet Clowder 1
Harry Clowder 13
Henry Clowder 33
Mary Clowder 30
Samuel Clowder 6
Thomas Clowder 8
Elizabeth Crawley 77
John Featherston 55
Mary Featherston 72
William Featherston 29
John G Hann 39
Mary Ann Hann 37
Sarah Herne 49
Sarah Herne 10
Edward Mansfield 8 lodger
Ellen Mansfield 42 Needlewoman lodger
George Mansfield 13 lodger
Thomas Mansfield 20 Potter lodger

Hi Karen,

Your 1871 ref looks right - Thomas and George are potters. Ellen is a widow age 42, needlewoman b Christchurch in Surrey and there is also son Edward aged 8, all three boys born Lambeth.

I'll see if any of their birth registrations are findable...

- there are four Edward birth registrations in north Surrey, but only one where Edward is the first name:

Name: Edward James Mansfield
Year of Registration: 1863
Quarter of Registration: Apr-May-Jun
District: Camberwell (1837-1919)
County: London, Surrey
Volume: 1d
Page: 511

- not Lambeth, though

(Edit - no, there is another Edward b abt 1864 born and living in Camberwell in 1871)

Comments welcome on this one - father Thomas is a potter and the largish gap between the boys is about the same as on 1871:

Name: Thomas J Cosgriff
Age: 9
Estimated Birth Year: abt 1852
Relation: Son
Father's Name: Thomas
Mother's Name: Ellen
Gender: Male
Where born: Lambeth, Surrey, England

Civil Parish: Lambeth St Mary
County/Island: Surrey
Country: England

Registration district: Lambeth
Sub-registration district: Lambeth Church First
ED, institution, or vessel: 16

Household schedule number: 79
Household Members:
Name Age
Ellen Cosgriff 30 (place of birth NK)
George B Cosgriff 3
Thomas Cosgriff 52
Thomas J Cosgriff 9

However, I cannot find anything else to link this family to the Mansfields - I had wondered whether Thomas might have died, and Ellen remarried to a Mansfield - but I can find neither a suitable death, nor any hint of another marriage.

This was the only Thomas/George/mother Ellen combination that I could find in Lambeth in 1861. Could Thomas be Ellen's stepson?

Thanks for helping...

On Thomas and Eliza's marriage cert it does say father Thomas Mansfield, Potter, deceased. But as well as not being able to find Thomas b1851 birth cert can't find the fathers death cert.

Not sure about Cosgriff?

Are not all BDM publised on line?

Hi Karen,

Some of the early indexes have been difficult for the Free BMD transcribers to read and to index; also although people were told that they had to register the births, there was no penalty for not doing so until the 1870s - so it is possible that for either of these reasons, you would not find a birth. Finding a baptism might be harder still, but possible....

I've tried to look for Ellen Mansfield in her own right, forwards and backwards, but not found her. Have you been able to trace Thomas' siblings George and Edward at all?

If the Cosgriff family are connected, I wonder if Thomas snr (b abt 1829) was known as Cosgriff aka Mansfield?

There are two Thomas Mansfield deaths in Lambeth between the 1861 and 1871 census returns.

This is the first one (before the indexes began to include the age at death):

Name: Thomas Mansfield
Year of Registration: 1864
Quarter of Registration: Jan-Feb-Mar
District: Lambeth
County: Greater London, London, Surrey
Volume: 1d
Page: 349

This is the second one:

Name: Thomas Mansfield
Year of Registration: 1870
Quarter of Registration: Oct-Nov-Dec
District: Lambeth
County: Greater London, London, Surrey
Volume: 1d
Page: 236

Again no age at death is given, but there should be one. Looking at the image, there are two digits, but faded - possibly 44? I'd be happier to just say that he is in his 40s.

One more point before I call it a day - on the 1861 census, Ancestry believes that Ellen's husband Thomas was born abt 1809 - i.e. they read his age as being 52, not 32. I've assumed it ought to be 32, but I could be wrong.