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Well done - so I think I will leave well alone and not delve too deeply .... I wonder if my saintly Daddy knew about this!

Thanks for all your help Sue.

Regards.

Margaret.

LOL

This is a minor thing compared with the scandals in my tree!!!

If you think elderly relations can't cope don't tell them but doing family history often means uncovering truths our ancestors thought they had buried.

Sue
x

To search for Births, marriages and Deaths go to

http://freebmd.rootsweb.com/

then use the codes to order certificates on this site

http://www.gro.gov.uk/gro/content/certificate/

Sue
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One last thing -
Samuel and Agnes (b. 1855-m. 1877 d. 1918) had children, George, William, Anne and Samuel.

Samuel and Margaret had children:

Samuel, Tom, Margaret, Ruth, Alice and Hannah...most of whom I knew.

How odd is that ... did Margaret perhaps bring her children to the union? Then which Samuel is my Grandpa?

Margaret.

Thanks for all your help Sue - I am now encouraged to search a little more on the sites you have sent, and not give in to despair at this branch of our tree...I love that we have found a skelly.

Dad has passed on so no doubt he now knows more than we do!

Cheers Margaret.

First of all you need to check deaths.

The earlier Samuel may have died.

It wasn't uncommon for people to use the same name for several children if earlier ones died.

If Margaret had her own children then perhaps she had one of the same name.

You need to sort it out by looking at census records and by buying birth certificates.

But check deaths first............I'll have a quick look.

Sue

Not sure about this.

I checked deaths and there are a number of Samuels.

If Agnes had a son Samuel when was he born? What proof have you or has someone assumed from a census? Could there be only one Samuel in that generation?

I think I'm getting my Samuels confused LOL

Sue

Oooh think I may have uncovered something

1881 census

Household:

Name Relation Marital Status Gender Age Birthplace Occupation Disability
Saml. WIDDINSON Head M Male 30 Nottingham, Nottingham, England Fish Merchant
Margaret WIDDINSON Wife M Female 26 Hull, York, England
Hannah WIDDINSON Daur U Female 7 Hull, York, England Scholar
Samuel WIDDINSON Son U Male 5 Hull, York, England Scholar
Thomas WIDDINSON Son U Male 2 Hull, York, England


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Source Information:
Dwelling 45 Canning St
Census Place Kingston-upon-Hull, York, England
Family History Library Film 1342152
Public Records Office Reference RG11
Piece / Folio 4769 / 47
Page Number 11

and

Household Record 1881 British Census

Search results | Download Previous Household Next Household


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Household:

Name Relation Marital Status Gender Age Birthplace Occupation Disability
Samuel WIDDOWSON Head M Male 29 Eastwood, Nottingham, England Bricklayers Labourer
Agnes WIDDOWSON Wife M Female 26 Basford, Nottingham, England Hose Mender
George WIDDOWSON Son Male 3 Basford, Nottingham, England


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Source Information:
Dwelling High St 9 Stirland Row
Census Place Basford, Nottingham, England
Family History Library Film 1341794
Public Records Office Reference RG11
Piece / Folio 3328 / 92
Page Number 21

I think you had the wrong family!

I think now that your lot might in earlier times have been called Widdinson (probably variant of Widdowson or mistranscribed).

Sue

OOOOOH I think you have it .... the Widdinson is a mis-spelling but all of those names match - and they are from Hull.

So Samuel and Agnes came from Basford .... our lot came from Notts too but they were fishermen, mariners, etc. so came to Hull.

Well done Sue .... I guess they were married after all.....Dad would be pleased!!

Wow....Margaret.

Not marriages for Widdinson.........I think the enumerator spelled it strangely.

This makes it look as if there are two Samuels again

Sue

Yes it does .... I am impressed with your research skills.....thanks everso.

In the next census there would be the rest of the children likely .....

Bit disappointed to find out Samuel was not a dashing blade who kept a harem.

Margaret.

We need the family/families on the 1891 census. Perhaps someone on Ancestry could do a search?

I haven't enough credits on Find My Past at the moment.

I wonder if the Samuel who married Agnes is nothing to do with yours but the two coincidentally were sons of a George. That would account for the mother Mary Ann for the one who married Agnes but she wouldn't be your ancestor.

Sue

If you go to Find My Past
http://www.findmypast.com
you can pay as you go and search the 1891 if you wish or you can ask someone on here for help with Ancestry.

I'd be interested to know what you find

Sue

OK - I will do that and let you know how it all turns out .... so cheers for now and thanks again for your help and interest.

Margaret

I still can't find a marriage for any Samuel Widd..........any ending to a Margaret Dickenson/Dickinson so there may yet be a scandal or it may be an area not covered by the indexes yet.

Good Luck

Sue

The Hull/Yorkshire accent would make the name Widdowson sound like : Widdison, Widdinson, Widson, so lots of variety.

They did come from Canning St. - remember Dad talking about that - I will follow this up and get back to you.

Bye for now .... and thanks for all you do.

Margaret.

1891 59 Colliers St,Holy Trinity,Hull
Samuel Widdowson Head 40 Fish buyer b Nottingham
Margaret Widdowson Wife 34 b Hull
Samuel Widdowson Son 14 Bobbin carrier in flax mill
Margaret Widdowson Daur 6 Scholar
Thomas Widdowson Son 11 Scholar
Ruth Widdowson Daur 4
Alice Widdowson Daur 1
All children born Hull

1901 30 Wassard St,Holy Trinity,Hull
Mary Ann Widdowson Head 73 b Nottingham
Samuel Widdowson Son Married51 Docl Labouer b Nottingham
Eliza Massam Gdaur 14 b Hull
Ruth Widdowson Gdaur 14 b Hull

1901 79 Canning St Holy Trinity & Sy Mary,Hull
Margaret Widdowson Head 44
Thomas Widdowson Son 21 Fish Merchant
Margaret Widdowson Daur 16 Warper in Flax mill
Alice Widdowson Daur12
John Dickinson Boarder 50 Lab in Iron foundry
Gertrude Dickinson Boarder 16 Domestic servant
All born Hull.

Hi Sue:

I asked someone (Mary) to help with this and here is what she found ..... it seems Margaret and Samuel split up and he went home to live with his Mum Mary Ann .... she lived to be 90 plus. Not sure who Eliza Massam is, but not a name known to me in our family.

So there we have it .... the end of the story.

Thanks for your help and interest. Margaret.

Ah right.

It's surprising what you can dig up.

That makes sense.

Where do the other Samuel and Agnes fit in? The 1881 seemed to show them living at the same time as your Samuel and Margaret so they were obviously a different couple.

I wonder if the two Samuels were some sort of cousin?

All interesting.

Best wishes
Sue

Hi Sue:

One thing I have learned since starting the tree ... there were lots of Widdowsons in the Nottingham area and only a few Christian names .... Samuel being a favourite by the number of times it crops up.

I suppose they are all related somehow.

Thanks for your help and your continued interest.

Take care.

Margaret.