Find Ancestors

John,

A quick look on the historical directories site tells me that North North was in fact a person:

Apparently the HUGE estate of Thurland Castle was sold around 1775 to Miles North - It later passed to his son Richard Toulmin North who then became Lord of the Manor of Tunstall (This included Newton, part of Whittington, and several other areas).

Obviously it passed down to North North who you can find on 1891 census living at Newton Hall - He was born in India c 1824.

You must have a read of these directories - they tell you LOADS about the various villages, families and the history of the area - you will really get to know what life was like then and how your ancestors lived.

Dea x

P.S. - Thank you Heather for those kind words.

Dea x

Dea

Your really are a great sleuth! Were you a detective in a past life?

I have decided to take the day off work and get stuck in.

A) Thomas Cragg

I think you may be correct in your assumptions.

I know from Australian records that Edward Blackburn (EB) Cragg was a teacher by trade. He initially taught at a Church of England School upon arriving here (I found this in some obits and parish records). There is a strong correlation there.

It is feasible that (EB) followed in his uncle’s / grandfather’s foot steps.

I shall investigate this further.

B) Edward Cragg
The parish records of March 1862 show EB preparing to return to England to “manage his father’s estate”. I do not have any records yet to establish an exact time of death for Edward Cragg, but I know he was on the 1861 Census. Therefore I should be able to locate his death on the Lancashire BDM with a +/- search of 2 years.

The next record I have is on the web:

http://www.a2a.org.uk/search/records.asp?cat=024-wdwhelp&cid=10-19-2

(Not sure what is meant by: “North North of Thurland Castle, co. Lancaster, esquire.” Is this the name of someone or does it mean a partnership or a company?)

It’s dated 1873 and shows the conveyance of the estate formerly leased by Thomas Cragg. The size and location of the property (Cort Lot or Far Lot on Newton Moor in Newton township - 2 acres and 4 perches in occupation of Mr Thomas Cragg as tenant) suggests to me it may be the family home??

In any event it evidences the lease between the owners of the land and Thomas Cragg and the release between the owners and Edward Cragg in 1840. It could be that Thomas is either preparing for his retirement or has retired. This would reconcile to the 1841 census showing no occupation for him.

Brilliant bit of work Dea - well done you.

Hi John,

Now, you asked about Edward Cragg's father - Well, I have a theory............

Please bear in mind that this is NOT proved, just something for you to work on !!!

I started from the census for Edward + Mabel in 1841 - Living in the same house, though not transcribed on Ancestry as being the same household, were :

Thomas Cragg age 75 not born in County
James Hodges age 20 " " "

I think we can safely 'assume' that Edward + Thomas are related - VERY possibly father + son, but it IS possible for Thomas to be an uncle??, so we need more proof !

I couldn't find anything on IGI to prove there relationship but as Thomas was not on 1851, I looked for a death on Bmd 1841 - 1851.

Unfortunately there are 2 deaths which fit - both in the same quarter and in the correct registration district:

Deaths Mar 1848

Cragg Thomas Lancaster 21 400
Cragg Thomas Lancaster 21 395

I checked back on 1841 but there was only 1 Thomas (apart from Edwards son, who did not die before 1851)
The other one who died could have been a child born after 1841, orsomeone from another area only there for a short time ???
..................................

From there I looked for death details or notices etc., and found this

death notice: Guardian - Wednesday March 29 1848.

On the 15th March at Newton, near Kirkby Lonsdale, in his 87th year, Mr. Thomas Cragg, many years master of Hutton Roof School

(The age would put him born c 1862 - which fits to the 1841 census when ages were rounded down to the nearest 5 - he would actually have been 79 not 75).

I cannot find another Thomas Cragg of the correct age to fit with the schoolmaster anywhere nearby on 1841 so I think this MUST be the one with Edward !

Thomas did not have an occupation on 1841 BUT the James Hodgson who was with him was a Schoolmaster !!!
...............................................

If you 'google'.... put in "Hutton Roof" +schoolmaster +cragg .... you will find some details

Hutton Roof was about 3 miles from Kirkby Lonsdale - this is where Lancashire and Westmorland joined.
........................

Also if you go to the historical directories site:

http://www.historicaldirectories.org/hd/index.asp

You will find a Gazette of Cumberland and Westmorland for 1829 - If you look through this you will find the names and occupations of the inhabitants of Hutton Roof and surrounding areas, which give details of the Craggs and the Hodges which you should be able to follow through.
There is also a farmer - William Cragg who would also be a relative.

I found all this this morning but had to go to a Wedding so couldn't do much work on it - it would be worth following James Hodgson a little way too , and those death certs may prove useful - hopefully the 'informant' will be James or Mabel, which may prove the relationship!

I will post this for now - you may wan't to work on it while I am asleep after my long day

Let me know what you think.

Regards,

Dea x

Please remember that this has not yet been proved but I think it is worth working on!!

Dea x

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Deaths Jun 1901 (>99%)
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Moorby Stephen 73 Lunesdale 8e 515

I hope so.

My side of the Cragg family in Australia seem to be a bit of an outposting. We don't seem to be related to any other Craggs here.

I would like to eventually track down living members of the family tree in the UK and elsewhere but I will leave this for now and concerntrate on compiling and documenting what has been given to me by everyone.

You're very welcome!

I hope you find something



sylvia

Sylvia,

Thanks for your advice. I shall look up some of these sources shortly.

John

Your ancestor Edward Cragg was born before official records were kept, so you are now down to looking in Parish Records.

You could try looking on the International Genealogical Index on the Mormon site, Family Search. Just make sure that any records are EXTRACTED or taken from the actual record. Treat SUBMITTED reocrds with great caution .... they have been sent in (submitted) by church members, and should not be taken as the gospel truth!!


go to www.familysearch.org

click on Advanced Search

Click on International Genealogical Index.



You MIGHT find something on there!




sylvia

John

To answer your question

Records on bmds began on July 1 1837. They were kept at the local Registry Office, then sent down to the General Records Office (GRO) in London at 3 monthly intervals.

You access them on www.freebmd.org.uk ........ a site where volunteers are entering all the GRO records from 1837 to 1983 onto the internet. They are currently upto about 1925 or 1930 for many areas.

Marriages and deaths had to be registered immediately, but births can be registered within 6 weeks of the birth ....... also it was not compulsory to register a birth until about 1875, so you may find birth records missing. In addition, records may not have reached GRO for one reason or another.

Each county is slowly developing its' own BMD site ...... and you are lucky in that Lancashire is one that has a lot of information on it, and ALSO that the Lancashire site often shows the mother's maiden name ............... most of them do not!

Go to www.lancashirebmd.org.uk

I use this frequently!!


www.ukbmd.org.uk is another site, on this one you can enter the name of the county of interest and find out what holdings there are.



sylvia

Yes. I am overwhelmed by so much information in such a short period time. I thank you all (especially Pam, Dea and ‘Lost For Words’) for your time and effort in retrieving all of this data. I shall go through it over the next couple days.

To explain, I am not familiar with the record system in England or the country’s geography. For instance I know Whittington is in the county of Lancashire but where are the records held for this village? In Australia birth, deaths and marriages are centralised at state level. Each state keeps registers of such things so it’s easy to retrieve this information.

I have one final question and I am hoping that Pam or Dea may have the answer. The Edward Cragg mentioned in my original posting, who are his parents? This is where I am stuck.

Once again thank you all.

Regards

John Cragg

Blimey, only just looked at this - John should be overwhelmed with all this but it would be nice if he could be advised how to search himself.

If this IS Mabel then more info on her parents:

Stephen Slinger

Christening: 22 JUN 1777 Kirkby Lonsdale, Westmorland, England


Marriage:
Spouse: Mary Morehouse
Marriage: 25 NOV 1799 Kirkby Lonsdale, Westmorland, England

Dea x

This COULD possibly be Mabel?? - 1851 has her born Middleton, Westmorland:

MABBY SLINGER
Christening: 29 AUG 1802 Middleton, Westmorland, England


Parents:
Father: STEPHEN SLINGER Family
Mother: MARY

......................
Other siblings:
Select records to download - (50 maximum)
1. JANE SLINGER - International Genealogical Index
Gender: Female Christening: 22 JUN 1800 Middleton, Westmorland, England

2. MABBY SLINGER - International Genealogical Index
Gender: Female Christening: 29 AUG 1802 Middleton, Westmorland, England

3. RICHARD SLINGER - International Genealogical Index
Gender: Male Christening: 18 NOV 1804 Middleton, Westmorland, England

4. EDWARD SLINGER - International Genealogical Index
Gender: Male Christening: 20 SEP 1807 Middleton, Westmorland, England

Dea x

Well done LFW.

Following on from there:

MABEL SLINGER Pedigree
Female Family



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Marriages:
Spouse: JOHN MOORBY Family
Marriage: 07 OCT 1826 Kirkby Lonsdale, Westmorland, England

Dea x

I have been looking on the 1841 image - Although it is not transcribed as being in the same household, there is Stephen Moorby and what looks like Joseph Moorby ALSO a James ???? Cragg 75 years old which could well be Edwards father.

There is also another Cragg further down the page - a possible brother.

The writing is very poor and so I have tried to follow them through on IGI to confirm the names but as yet haven't come up with anything certain.

Perhaps someone else could have a look?

Dea x

1841 England Census
about Mable Cragg
Name: Mable Cragg
Age: 35
Estimated Birth Year: abt 1806
Gender: Female
Where born: Lancashire, England

Civil Parish: Whittington
Hundred: Lonsdale (South of the Sands)
County/Island: Lancashire
Country: England

Street address:

Occupation:

Registration district: Lancaster
Sub registration district: Arkholme
Neighbors:
Household Members: Name Age
Edwd Cragg 40
Edwd Cragg 4
Mable Cragg 35
Thos Cragg 2



Source Citation: Class: HO107; Piece 531; Book: 22; Civil Parish: Whittington; County: Lancashire; Enumeration District: 3;



1851 Census

The Tallon and Newton children listed on the 1851 census were Pauper Scholars and Boarders.

1881 England Census
about Stephen Moorby
Name: Stephen Moorby
Age: 50
Estimated Birth Year: abt 1831
Relation: Head
Spouse's Name: Sarah
Gender: Male
Where born: Newton, Lancashire, England

Civil Parish: Leck
County/Island: Lancashire
Country: England

Street address: Cowan Bridge
Condition as to marriage: Married
Education:

Employment status:
Occupation: Carrier

Registration district: Lunesdale
Sub registration district: Tunstal
ED, institution, or vessel: 3
Neighbors:
Household Members: Name Age
Mary Major 10 Step daughter
Elizabeth A. Moorby 1
John R. Moorby 3
Sarah Moorby 36
Stephen Moorby 50
William Moorby 5

Marriage Possible William

Marriages Dec 1884 (>99%)
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BATTY Alice Lancaster 8e 1069
CRAGG William Lancaster 8e 1069

Second marriage..can't find first yet

First name(s) District Vol Page

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Marriages Jun 1875 (>99%)
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>>>Major Sarah Lunesdale 8e 1035
>>>Moorby Stephen Lunesdale 8e 1035
Moore Stephen Lunesdale 8e 1035
WHITELEY Mary Lunesdale 8e 1035