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My gt grandfather was a Wm Pursell. He married Catherine (Kate) Collins in June 1886, at Mold Free Church, Flintshire; daughter Selina was born following January. He was a Railway porter on his wedding cert but .............. after the wedding, where does he go???? No sign on censuses - nor of Selina in 1891 either English or Welsh - I know what happened with Kate and Selina but of William I know nothing. Any bells ringing here?
E.

Have you traced a chester connection for catherine in 1891? xx

yes I have, but William remains elusive! I even have a photos of Catherine 'in service' at the time. I am really thinking that William went to Ireland, and if so, I doubt I will ever trace him. But thank you for your kind interest.
E .x

The chester one was the only think I came up with too...maybe somebody else will have more luck. Sorry I couldn't help. xx

Have you got the marriage certificate?


It should tell you William's age, the name of his father and his father's occupation.


Those details could help find him.


If you do have the certificate, please would you post these details.


If not, it would be a very good idea for you to buy the certificate from www.gro.gov.uk. It will cost £7



sylvia

Hello again, marriage cert 26th June 1886. Kate Collins age 20 yrs, Spinster, to William Pursell aged 21 yrs, Bachelor, Railway porter. Married at Wrexham Free Church, Mold. Wm's father was John Pursell, Railway Guard, Peter Collins was deceased.
I have done various searches for the family but have only come up with one slight possibility but it is only a thin chance. I tried tracing the siblings but didn't come up with anything concrete there either.
Thanks for all your suggestions, it has been very kind of you to take the trouble, but I fear (yet another!) brick wall is looming.
Eunice

The birth record at FreeBMD currently says

PURSELL Selina Chester _a 406

The volume is 8a -- it's blurry on the image, but all other births in Chester in 1887 on page 406 are in volume 8a.

It's always worth submitting a correction and postem (with email address) to FreeBMD. You never know who might see it and get in touch! Ditto for wherever they do appear at Ancestry in censuses -- submit things like Kate's birth surname / married surname, Kate for Catherine and vice versa, and anyone else looking for the family would find you.

Selina was born in Chester in 1887. It would seem highly likely that the Catherine Pursell there in 1891 is your Kate.

Name: Catherine Pursell
Age: 25
Estimated Birth Year: abt 1866
Relation: Servant
Where born: Mold, Flintshire, Wales
Civil Parish: Chester


Employers would not likely know nor care what their domestic servants' marital status was.

That Catherine Pursell in 1891 doesn't match with anyone in the earlier censuses.


You say: "I know what happened with Kate and Selina" -- but we don't!

Do you have them in the 1901 census, or Selina's marriage or Kate's death, or emigrating ...?

1881 for info:

Name: Catherine Collins
Age: 15
Estimated Birth Year: abt 1866
Relation: Servant
Where born: Mold, Flintshire, Wales
Civil Parish: Mold

This doesn't make a lot of sense, but in 1901, I read this surname as PURCIL (see the "P" in "Priscilla" higher up the page):

Name: Selina Daseil
Age in 1901: 14
Estimated Birth Year: abt 1887
Relation: Granddaughter
Where born: Mold, Flintshire, Wales
Civil Parish: Mold
Town: Mold
County/Island: Flintshire

Selina Daseil 14 - granddaughter
Elizabeth Griffith 13 - niece
John Griffiths 22 - boarder
Ann Jones 61 - wife
Richard Jones 49 - head, Labourer at Brickworks

1871 census for Kate's mother:

Name: Ann Collins
Age: 31
Estimated Birth Year: abt 1840
Relation: Wife
Spouse's Name: Peter
Where born: Pentre, Flintshire, Wales
Civil Parish: Argoed
Ecclesiastical parish: Mold
County/Island: Flintshire

Peter Collins 28
Ann Collins 31
Thomas Collins 6
Catherine Collins 5
Elizabeth Ann Collins 3


Her personal details match those of grandmother Ann Jones in 1901.

We know Peter Collins was deceased in 1886; did Ann Collins remarry?

Evie - hello again! - I have just dropped home for a bite to eat then back to work; I will fill you in with more later. The Griffiths connection - yes, also possibly Richard. I have some bits of reminicences on paper but I will put them on here tonight at some point. I knew Kate was at the addresses you gave and I have followed her to Leigh, Lancs when she ended up with one David Jenkins who was a bit of a violent B*stard - rumour has it he impregnated Selina after her mother's early death and that she was petrified of him. I am just curious about Wm. I wonder if railway records exist of employees??
Gotta dash now
Thaks as ever
E xx

Yep, Peter Collins died 7/6/1875 of 'Fever and Congestion of the Brain' His widow Ann married Richard Jones, she died 14/1/1903 of Gastritis. Ann's maiden name was Griffiths - she married Peter 13/7/1863, her father was David Griffith, Blacksmith, hence the Griffiths on that 1901 census you found, Evie.

E xx

Ah, so you did have that 1901 already. Well, then, I was right, lol!

Not really - I didn't have it I mean, but my cousin did some scribblings but never totally explained them.
Thanks as ever for your help and interest
Exx

I just had my memory jogged. Peter Collins is the son of the elusive Michael and Bridget from Ireland, and was living with the Foulkes couple after his parents disappeared from the censuses. A recurring problem you have there!

Have you considered this William in 1891?

Name: William Purcell
Age: 26
Estimated Birth Year: abt 1865
Relation: Lodger
Where born: Buerton, Cheshire, England
Occupation: Railway Platelayer
Condition as to marriage: Single

Civil Parish: Coppenhall
Ecclesiastical parish: Coppenhall
County/Island: Cheshire

I was looking at him yesterday. Did Kate Collins happen to have a brother John? Coincidence I'm sure, but the second-next household to William is a John Collins, born abt 1861 in Crewe, General Labourer. (No, duh, I already put the 1871 household here, didn't I?)

There are other railway platelayer lodgers in the household, and the ones after him are identified as married. If there had been an estrangement (as it seems, with Kate working and daughter Selina absent), William might have called himself / been thought to be single.

1891


Name: Tecton Powell
Age: 4
Estimated Birth Year: abt 1887
Relation: Granddaughter
Where born: Mold, Flintshire, Wales

Civil Parish: Mold
Town: Pentrehobyn
County/Island: Flintshire
Registration district: Holywell

Ann Jones 50
John R Jones 9 - it says Collins
Margaret Jones 11 - it says Collins
Michael Jones 17 - it says Collins
Peter Jones 15 - it says Collins
Richard Jones 39
Tecton Powell 4


TECTON POWELL is SELINA and some variation on PURSELL - could be Porcell, or could be Powell transcribed by somebody who didn't read Pursell or Purcell correctly.


The other children's surnames are written out clearly and individually. Ancestry just decided to ignore them.

Well you have stunned me there girl! Wm - yes I guess that could be him, I will ook tonight. Yes she did have a brother John plus several other siblings but they were mainly born in Mold. But Tecton???? How strange a name is that? But the other names fit don't they??? Will look when I get home from work tonight! Well done - I just don't know how you do it!!!

E xx

I should have been clearer -- "Tecton" is Ancestry's weird and wonderful MIStranscription of "Selina". It's quite plain on the image!



Just sticking the other thread URL here for ref:

http://www.genesreunited.co.uk/boards.asp?wci=thread&tk=1105736