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I havent been able to find any record of my great grandfathers birth, can anyone help?
John Ross married Martha Harkins on 6 July 1892 in Greenock, Renfrewshire. His marriage certificate says he was 24 when he got married meaning he was born in 1867 or 1868.
He died on 16 March 1941 in Gourock, Renfrewshire. His death certificate says he was 76 when he died meaning he was born in 1865 or 1866.
So he could have been born between 1865-1868, not sure why there is a discrepancy here.
Not too sure where he was born, it may have been Greenock, I know that he had an older brother James that was born in Tradeston in Glasgow.
John parents were Alexander Ross and Isabella McDonald.
The earliest address I have for him is the 1871 census. 20 Cathcart St, Greenock.
Im have looked at every John Ross born in Glasgow/Greenock between 1865 and 1868 on Scotlands People and cant find a record of his birth.
Any ideas where to look now?

hi catherine
have you checked these?

No Year Surname Forename Sex District City/County/MR GROS Data Image Extract
1 1862 ROSS JOHN M LANARK /LANARK 648/00 0209 VIEW (5 CREDITS) ORDER
2 1869 ROSS JOHN M LANARK /LANARK 648/00 0178 VIEW (5 CREDITS) ORDER


No Year Surname Forename Sex District City/County/MR GROS Data Image Extract
1 1866 ROSS JOHN M RENFREW /RENFREW 575/00 0191 VIEW (5 CREDITS) ORDER

vivienne

I'll have a go tomorrow.

Suzanne

Viv
No I havent had a look at those John Ross, will do and let you know how I get on.
Cat

I have checked the 3 Ross entries below, none of them are who I am looking for.

Linda
Yes that is the correct 1871 census entry.
I have John Ross's marriage certificate and death certificate.
On his marriage certificate 1892 it says that his father was Alexander Ross, Clothing Traveller (deceased), it says his mother is Isabella Ivison, formally Ross Ms I McDonald. His mum was remarried in 1872, I have a copy of her marriage certificate and on there it states she is the widow of Alexander Ross.
On Johns death cert 1941 it says his father was Alexander Ross ( clothing traveller) and mother was Isabella Ross afterwards Ivison Ms McDonald.
So from the 1871 census I thought either Johns father Alexander was working away from home as he was a clothing traveller or that he had died as Isabella was remarried in 1872.
I cant find any record or Alexanders (Johns brother)birth either....it is only Renfrewshire Greenock I have searched.
Also does anyone know why the mums name is down as James Isabella?? weird

James Isabella? Probably a mistranscription. You can view the image on scotlandspeople. It should also show if she was already widowed in 1871.

I didnt even notice that there was a census look up on Scotlands People. I have always used ancestry.co.uk for census look ups. Anyway I have just looked up Scotlands People for the 1871 census. I am even more confused now. Ages dont tally up.

It shows the head of house as a Finlay Ross age 25 and his occupation is an Iron something?? cant make it out.
It also lists Isabella Ross age 22 wife, Alexander Ross age 2 son, and John Ross age 1 son.
Address looks like 20 or 23 C?? Street, so this could be 20 Cathcart St, as per the ancestry census.

I agree..this was a nightmare....sorry..could not find anything for definate.

Suzanne

I have looked further into the 1871 census that is on Scotlands People, it cant be the same family. I have viewed the birth certificate for the John Ross aged 1 in 1871.His mother was an Isabella but not an Isabella McDonald. Anyone have any ideas?

It seems like you've looked up this one rather than the 1871 posted above:

1871 Scotland Census
Registration Number: 564/2
Registration district: Greenock East
Civil Parish: Greenock East
Town: Greenock
County: Renfrewshire
Address: 23 Crescent St
ED: 12
Household schedule number: 29
Page: 7
Roll: CSSCT1871_98

Finlay Ross 25 Lanarkshire Iron Dresser
Isabella Ross 32 Bailey, Renfrewshire Wife
Alexander Ross 2 Lanarkshire Greenock, Renfrewshire Son
John Ross 1 Lanarkshire Greenock, Renfrewshire Son

I wouldn't expect this family to be related - it is probably the 2nd LKS John's birth that Vivienne posted.

When Isabella remarried in 1872 her address was 20 Cathcart St, Greenock, so I beleive the 1871 census with the Cathcart St address must be correct.
I do have James birth certificate. He was born 1st Aug 1855 at 22 Salisbury St, Glasgow. It states his parents were Alexander Ross, aged 29 I think, from the parish of Strath Inverness Shire and his mother was Isabella McDonald 25 years from Glasgow. Married 1854 in Greenock and this was her 1st child.
Last night I discovered that Johns brother Alexander moved to New York in 1887. I found Alexanders application for an American passport. It states on the application that he was born in Greenock on 5th March 1861. I looked on Scotlands people and cat find a record of his birth?? Weird, could he have lied on his application?
So of the 3 brothers....I have James birth cert, Alexanders DOB but no birth cert and no DOB or birth cert for John.

Here's John on the other censuses:


1901 Scotland Census
Registration Number: 564/1
Registration district: Greenock East
Civil Parish: Greenock East
County: Renfrewshire
Address: 50 Shaw St
ED: 5
Household schedule number: 52
Page: 13
Roll: CSSCT1901_192

John Ross 32 Greenock, Renfrewshire Head Iron Turner
Martha Ross 28 Greenock, Renfrewshire
William Ross 7 Greenock, Renfrewshire Son Scholar
John Ross 5 Greenock, Renfrewshire Son
Catherine Ross 4 Greenock, Renfrewshire Daur
Mary Ross 2 Greenock, Renfrewshire Daur
Isabella Ross 5mo Greenock, Renfrewshire Daur


1891 Scotland Census
Registration Number: 564/1
Registration district: Greenock East
Civil Parish: Greenock East
Town: Greenock
County: Renfrewshire
Address: 19 Antigua St
ED: 27
Household schedule number: 118
Page: 21
Roll: CSSCT1891_180

Isabella Ross 56 Greenock, Renfrewshire Widow
John Ross 23 Greenock, Renfrewshire Son Turner
Margaret Kelly 9 Mo Greenock, Renfrewshire


1881 Scotland Census
Registration Number: 564/1
Registration district: Greenock Middle
Civil Parish: Greenock Middle
County: Renfrewshire
Address: 19 Antigua St
ED: 35
Household schedule number: 158
Page: 26-27
Roll: cssct1881_164

Isabella Ross 49 Glasgow, Lanarkshire Head Washerwoman
Alexr Ross 17 Greenock, Renfrewshire Son Joiner
John Ross 15 Greenock, Renfrewshire Son News Boy
Mary McDonald 75 Rothesay, Buteshire Mother

Here's the IGI entries I found - I don't know if I've got the right birth for Isabella:



Results for: Alexander Ross, Marriage, Scotland, British Isles
Spouse: Isabella Mcdonald
Exact Spelling: Off
Batch Number: m119562

International Genealogical Index / British Isles - 1
Select records to download - (50 maximum)
1. ALEXANDER ROSS - International Genealogical Index
Gender: Male Marriage: 11 SEP 1854 East Parish, Greenock, Renfrew, Scotland


Results for: Scotland, British Isles
Father: Alexander Ross, Mother: Isabella Mcdonald
Exact Spelling: Off
Batch Number: c119331

International Genealogical Index / British Isles - 2
Select records to download - (50 maximum)
1. JAMES ALEXANDER ROSS - International Genealogical Index
Gender: Male Birth: 01 AUG 1855 Tradeston, Glasgow, Lanark, Scotland

2. ISABELLA ROSS - International Genealogical Index
Gender: Female Birth: 28 MAR 1857 Tradeston, Glasgow, Lanark, Scotland



Results for: Renfrew, Scotland, British Isles
Father: Hugh Mcdonald, Mother: Mary Johnston
Exact Spelling: Off
Batch Number: C119562

International Genealogical Index / British Isles - 2
Select records to download - (50 maximum)
1. ISABELLA MCDONALD - International Genealogical Index
Gender: Female Birth: 22 JUL 1834 East Parish, Greenock, Renfrew, Scotland

2. MARY MCDONALD - International Genealogical Index
Gender: Female Christening: 18 DEC 1831 East Parish, Greenock, Renfrew, Scotland

Re Alex's passport applicatio - did you see the original document, or just a transcription. I could easily imagine an 1864 being transcribed as 1861.

I found two Hugh McDonalds in 1841, each with a 5 y.o. Isabella. One in LKS had a wife Mary, and one in RFW had a wife Mrs Hugh.

I have already looked at these census's they still havent helped me trace his birth certificate. Does anyone know what date in 1891 the census was conducted? The 1891 census says he was 23, he got married on 06jul1892 and he was 24.

The passport application is a scanned copy of the original from Ancestry, I have looked at it again, it clearly says 1861.

The results for marriage of alexander ross and isabella mcdonald are the correct ones.

Isabellas 2nd husband John Ivison died in 1878. I'm not sure why she would have went back to the name of Ross for the 1881 census?

Strath is one of two parishes at the SE end of Skye, and includes some islands off its N coast, the largest of which is Scalpay. Its W boundary runs from L Scavaig NE to L Ainart. The extreme S peninsular is the par of Sleat. In the early 19th cent, Sleat had a detached part, the village of Kylerhea at the mouth of the narrows leading from the Sound of Sleat to L Alsh, but in 1891, the boundaries were redrawn, and Kylerhea was linked to Sleat, with Strath getting a compensating chunk of moorland. The par kirk is at Broadford. In 1891, the parish was over 90% Gaelic speaking. Presumably, Alex was either unilingual English or, more probably, bilingual.

For a map showing parishes, see the Hebrides map at:
http://www.electricscotland.com/history/gazetteer/


I didn't find any likely Alex* Ross in 1851-1871 with pob=Strath, nor Skye.

Christine, the best strategy for searching Scottish censuses is to search for them on Ancestry, then when you find one that's really of interest, buy that one from SP. That way, all your deadend searches don't cost you extra.

I'm a bit puzzled why young Alex should want to be older - I could see it in the 1960s - being over 26 lowered your draft classification during the time of Viet Nam. However, I do think he was probably born 1863-1864.

Aren't 1855 regos marvelous. My gg grandad's death rego lists all his kids (excepting an illegitimate one, but I don't know that his son knew of that anyway).

Have you looked for Alex's d.rego - when you get the right 1871, you'll learn if Isa* was a widow. Between 1851-1911 all census took place at the end of March/begin of April, on a Sunday night (supposedly at midnight). 1841 was 6/6/1841, and 1921 was a month late because of printing problems (in Ireland it was 5 years late, but they had other problems too).

I think Isa's parentage from James' b.rego, and the presence of ma Mary in 1881 takes care of Linda's worries, and we are looking at the right family (modulo Catherine's 1871 hiccough).
It would be interesting to get hold of ma Mary's d.rego - that would probably give one set of Isa's grandparents. You never said who Isa's dad was - presumably that appears on one of her marr regos.

My guess for John's birth has always been the RFW one that Vivienne posted - of the 3 it's the closest to the census ages - or does Catherine's post:
"I have checked the 3 Ross entries below, none of them are who I am looking for" really mean above, not below, and these 3 are dead and dusted.

Hi

There is a death of Alexander Ross married to Isabella McDonald in Greenock in 1865. Hi is a labourer aged 38 father's name Alexander (a joiner) but no details for this mother. Sorry can't find the births for Alexnder and John

Margaret